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(TFT) Bringing Melee Wizard into the 3rd Dimension



Thanks for the reply! This is just the kind of feedback I'm looking for!

One of the reasons it took me so long to ever post my rules was exactly the height issues. I kept going back and forth on two things, a.) how to determine who could hit who and b.) what plus or minus should they get to do so. For the longest time I had in my rules the +2/-2 out of the Advanced rules. It was simply enough and worked fine. Why did I change it? I guess I wanted to break the pluses and minuses down a little bit further than a blanket "if you're higher you get a +2" would have given me. This allows several foes on different levels to have slightly different chances to hit and adds to the tactical decision making process of who to hit. As you pointed out in 28mm scale the most this will (approximately) ever be is +3/-3. In the end it just came down to "let's just pick one and go with that or this thing will never see print" strategy.

So how to solve this problem with larger, 32mm figures? My gut reaction is to just make it a +2/-2 regardless of the actual height. That would be the simplest ruling. And I'm a big fan of the simpler the rule the better, and the more playable.

Look, you've got to scale it to something. I picked 28mm since that seems to be pretty much the norm and they fit the scale of the Heroscape tiles well. Some companies are trying to increase the standard size again these days, mainly with prepaints. I guess it's easier to manufacture prepaints when they are slightly larger. And you're right, those Reaper figures are much larger (the main reason I don't use them). I would suggest the D&D figures, they are all 28mm and some are quite cheap. I've used several of those recently.

Perhaps what I should do is put in a section about scale in my rules. Something like use this rule with 28mm and this rule with 32mm (or larger) figures.

As for talents you're right, I don't use talents when we play with large numbers of figures. That's mainly to keep the game a little easier to manage. I did manage to add in the climbing talent however, it might be a little buried but it's in there:

"To climb up (or down) you must start the turn adjacent to the wall you wish to climb. You get the first set of tiles (equal to your H) for free, no roll needed. Then, on the same turn, you must roll 4D6 vs DX (3D6 with the climb talent) to see if you were able to climb the next set."

I might add that my rules on 3d terrain work great with (shameless plug here) Dark City Games rules as well. I played a cool skirmish game out at GenCon last year with George (the owner) and most of the battle took place on a hill top. It just added so much more to the game to play it on the dimensional terrain. (Just so the public record is straight here George won that battle, but barely. It was that damn wizard and the fire wall cutting across the hill top that did me in. Of course this means we'll have to have a rematch George! I've got a few pictures of the battle, perhaps I'll post them to the site soon.)

Anyway, looking forward to hearing about how the Viking boarding action game goes!

Thanks,
David O. Miller



On Feb 20, 2009, at 9:30 AM, Sgt Hulka wrote:

That's fantastic; thanks for posting.

I'm just curious...what made you decide to use a +1/-1 AdjDex per level height advantage rather than the overall +2/-2 AdjDex per level described in Advanced Melee, page 25? I ask because I fear +1/-1 per level might get out of hand rather quickly. While your old(er) 28mm Citadel minis are size 1/2/3, my Reaper, Alternative Armies, Heroscape, and other 32mm figures are closer to size 3/4/5, requiring more extreme elevation changes. With your figures, a 5 elevation change will usually result in an inability for figures to attack eachother. But with mine, two large(ish) humans will definitely be able to attack each other. That results in a +5/-5 AdjDex, which seems pretty extreme, while with your figures the maximum is a more manageable +3/-3. Alternatively, I can see playing with toy soldiers as small as 20mm (1/72) and as large as 54mm (1/32). So I'd prefer a rule that is less variable with figure size...i.e. the blanket +2/-2. I don't mind the use of figure size as a guage for what can be climbed and attacked...that all evens out in the wash.

I understand that it probably doesn't matter to you -- you're doing this for your own fun and your own figures, not for everyone else. But because your pictures are so inspiring, and your downloads are so well-produced and accessible, whether you like it or not you are the central hub of "Melee/Wizard Heroscape Wargaming."

Secondly, although I know you don't use talents, I'd love to see some nod to them...like Climbers only requiring to throw 2 dice instead of 3.

Anyway, I'm anxious to try a Viking Longship versus Kogge boarding action in the next few weeks, and since the Kogge rides higher in the water and has two castles, the aft of which is 5 hex sides tall, I'll need elevation rules. I'll use your rules as written so if/when I play it out I'll post my experiences to this list.

Thanks again.


--- On Wed, 2/18/09, David O. Miller <davidomiller@verizon.net> wrote:

From: David O. Miller <davidomiller@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: (TFT) Hirst Arts Melee/Wizard Arena
To: tft@brainiac.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 8:27 PM
On Feb 18, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Sgt Hulka wrote:

Yes, David. You've been promising your houserules
on your site for years, and they're still not there!

Ask and you shall receive. I just posted them to my site.
Here's the link:

http://www.meleewizards.com/rules.html

Overall I'm pretty happy with them. However I can see
doing even more to them or tweaking them in the near future.
I'd happily entertain any comments from you guys.
Perhaps there is a better way of doing something that
I've simply overlooked.

David O. Miller


I've been using the default heroscape
rules...moving up each level costs 1 Move Allowance,
can't move up a level higher than the figure is tall, a
figure on a higher level gains the +2 Dex/-2 Dex height
advantage. But I don't use the double MA on road hexes
rule, and I haven't yet used the ladders (seems like you
shouldn't be able to climb a ladder unless your weapons
are unreadied). I'd like to see what rules you use.
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David O. Miller
Miller Design/Illustration
www.davidomiller.com

Network Diagram Solutions
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P.O. Box 1453
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(631) 266-6875
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