Re: (TFT) Foot races again

["Jay Carlisle" <Jay_Carlisle@charter.net>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "PvK"
Subject: Re: (TFT) Foot races again


> Jay, if you're going to invest so much time and energy into detailed 
> analysis, I think you need to pay more attention to proportions. Details 
> can be fun, but sometimes some factors are insignificant, and a waste of 
> time, particularly when the accuracy of some elements is low.

AGREED Sir!
I figure I need Joe Average to explain how I see a Halfling or a Giant.
I also agree that w/o modern methods, much of this athletic stuff is mostly 
moot.
Without professional athletes listed under Jobs I doubt any of the fine 
level refinements I'm discussing in world class sprinting matters.
As a matter of fact, Coach needs to be listed as a Job too.


> So you are continuing to return to the point about "initiative" as if it 
> has something to do with a race, referring to starting guns and suggesting 
> maybe a check against listening ability is appropriate? What? How large a 
> fraction of a second is the delay to start running? What is the difference 
> between folks? What TFT attributes or talents are going to give us any 
> worthwhile input into that? Acute Hearing? NO. Tactics? NO, not unless 
> it's a no-holds-barred combat race, so people are worried about getting 
> tripped and possibly faking each other out instead of just running.

I hear you on this.
I don't mean to make "initiative" more important than it is in a less 
formalized situation, but many sports create such situations via the rules 
of the sport.
A sprinter who tries to get a jump on the competators might commit a false 
start.
I was just trying to point out that under such admited artifical rules 
initiative becomes more amplified.
I'd like to step up from foot races to u.s. football.
A pass reciever under "coverage" doesn't get to run their route unapposed.
I'd think the hike from center to start the play is still a kind of 
initiative issue though.

I'm not argueing against your basic point Sir.
Uhhhh.... It seems that sprinters dug holes to start before the 20's and by 
'37 starting blocks were offical for sprinting events.
The advantages are small, but all else being even it's still an advantage.
IMO the rules of formalized sporting events tend to point to the finer 
differences between folks.
This doesn't mean I expect to plop an NFL linebacker into the colosseum 
against a trained gladiator and win.
I do expect him to have more physical resources than Joe Average however.
Much of the differences have to do with the skills and Talents that the 
Figures focus on IMO.
Plop said gladiator in the Super Bowl and he just might get his neck broken.
Red card ejected in under 24 turns in the World Cup maybe?
Looking at reaction starts over the last 20 years or so (1 generation) I've 
got Montgomery at just over a tenth of a second out of the blocks vs. Bolts 
start in Bejing that was over 0.06 seconds slower.
Granted that these were two seperate races and etc. and etc. but Bolt's 9.69 
is only 0.09 faster than Tim's 9.78.
These guys are compeating over hundredths of a second... so in this 
particular situation I think it's important to describe.
The more general use of reaction speed outta starting blocks is of dubious 
value I'd think.
I'd figure a Figure with such "Talent" might start looking for ways to apply 
it outside of formalized sprints though, assuming a party of adventurers 
talked a sprinter into a dungeon crawl.
Didn't the new Oceans 11 have a circus guy?
Specialists can be a problem for entertainment.
Joe "I actually wanna kill somebody" Starting Wizard might be 16,8,8 with 
Magic Fist @ 1d6-2 dam per 1 fST with about a 26% chance to hit out to 10 
hexes away.
Assuming he hits on average and does average damage with the shot, he kills 
1 Joe Average about 42 feet away once per 8 hours assuming almost 4 hours of 
rest for every 2 shots.

I suggest this is only a problem in TFT if you try and specialize Figures 
into killers in the same way that specializing them into sprinters can be a 
problem.
Flesh things out a bit and both can have a place with interesting and 
objective rules that lets the player make more stratigic-like decisions and 
risks to try and "win".
If I offer foot races to my players I want them to have something of an 
objective framework of rules in place to start with.

Uhhhh, let's see...
...
Maybe I should tell you about something compleatly different...
I have several alter-ego Figures that reside in my gameworld.
The Conjurer is the jerk that poped the firecracker.
The Dark Lord is a little different.
The Dark Lord is the direct opposet of your Figure.
The Dark Lord's purpose is to oppose the players Figures with some kind of 
opposet view to the players.
Millitant players get a bunch of hippie Orc's dancing naked around bonfires 
on the beach, liberal players get Orc cops showing up to shut down their 
beach bonfire.
An interesting thought experiment is the "opposet" of a party of 'dungeon 
crawlers'.

Anyway, I also have this bit where if a player builds something then they 
"GM" the thing.
If a players Figure gets control over a "county" in my gameworld then my 
Figures in that gameworld are under the players GMing if I move my Figures 
into their domain.
For this to work I as the GM must refrain as much as possable from "on the 
fly" judgments.
I try to describe things such that if a player is playing the Figure of "the 
king" then they simply have access to the same game tools I use to have "the 
king" perform Actions.
In other words, I have "the kings" followers, units, strongholds, and etc. 
spelled out before play.
Adjustments are made in downtime according to the same rules that players 
use.
Idealy this works out to where as GM I'm useing the same rules that the 
players use with starting Figures... I just have access to a LOT more 
resources.
I DON'T have access to unlimited resources however, and as players (and 
their families) gain power they also gain some level of responsability for 
game-play book-keeping.
I actually think I might be able to do a limited campagin (maybe 1 
generation duration) as a solo play possability.
Of course, pertend to think too much.

So, to sum up.
If you give a group of dungeon crawlers Smaug's paradox they take the Thorin 
solution and start digging.
It's not hard to make a player wanna make a dungeon.
Now if I'm going to let them GM their own dungeon... how comfortable am I 
with "on the fly" judgments?

To turn this up a notch, if players get to play their family tree and 
somebody becomes a Mnoren, or discovers time-travel, or something odd to do 
with the timing of gate placement as opposed to rotation of the body to 
which I assume it must be gravitically tied...
Ugggghhhhh...
I babble.
AGAIN.
That's stuff about time travel and how to eliminate "someone" from history.

I'll just say that I have a strong intrest in making sure that judgments "on 
the fly" are kept on scales small enough not to have far reaching 
implications on future game play because I may not always be the one making 
such judgments.
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