Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.

[Sgt Hulka <hulkasgt@yahoo.com>]

Take a look at the new Hackmaster. It plays/feels quite a bit like TFT, despite have completely different mechanics.

--- On Thu, 3/7/13, Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3  stat game.
> To: tft@brainiac.com
> Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 10:46 AM
> Tacticals have a sufficiently defined
> combat rule so that no gm feed
> back... this is true
> 
> However,  you might be missing my point in that I think
> that its a fun part
> of the game, and
> that im looking for other games that have good tactical
> rules built into
> them. I am a boardgamer as well as
> a roleplayer. So good tactical rules in an rpg appeal to
> me.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > The label is less about accurate tactics and more about
> the thought
> > processes of the players.  The Strategic/Narrative
> games feature
> > combat systems that run on the basis of telling the GM
> what you *want*
> > to do and him returning with what happens, while the
> Tacticals have
> > sufficiently defined combat rules that no GM feedback
> is required
> > unless there is a difference between what is visible to
> players and
> > reality (like traps, etc.).
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Joel BoardgameRpger
> > <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > im quite familiar with herogames. I wouldnt call
> it tactical because its
> > > missing essential zone of control elements, or
> what would call
> > > engaged/disengaged in tft. Also Facing usually
> isnt taken seriously.
> > There
> > > is a gangup bonus. but mostly its fire and forget,
> leaning heavily on
> > > segmented speed/movement.  Id put RQ, and
> paladium in the same abstracted
> > > box that dnd 2,3.x came out of. FGU games and
> Dragon quest have good
> > > candiddates but not really an option because they
> are completely
> > > unsuported. Mind you this term 'unsupported' seems
> to be cropping up now
> > > adays.  they take it to mean 'just recently
> no longer published.'   I
> > > consider no longer supported as in FGU and DQ
> havent been printed or
> > pushed
> > > in 20 years. now thats a WHOLE truck load of
> unsupported.
> > >
> > > I havent tried chainmail, ill have to find a copy
> of the rules.
> > >
> > > MOARRR. MOOARRRR. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Chainmail is not an RPG.  While it sits
> in the transitional spot from
> > >> miniatures wargames to RPGs, its direct
> descendent (D&D) is not a
> > >> tactical game.  TFT is the fence-sitter
> that directly spawned or
> > >> inspired the tactical combat RPGs.  GURPS
> and Hero share the dice
> > >> mechanic (3d6) and armor mechanic, but the
> structured options within a
> > >> turn of TFT, along with movement and facing
> rules that actually
> > >> matter, are what define the Tactical family of
> RPGs.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Geof Gibson
> <geofgibson@mac.com>
> wrote:
> > >> > Don't forget the Grandaddy of TSR's
> games, Chainmail.
> > >> > That was more tactical as it was really
> designed for miniatures rather
> > >> than
> > >> > extended adventures.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Jim Kundert
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> The most well known would be Hero
> (aka Champions) and 3+ D&D, but the
> > >> >> semi-tactical combat of Runequest
> (and all of the rest of the BRP
> > >> >> family, including Call of Cthulhu)
> also owes something to TFT. The
> > >> >> first ed of Runequest even said so in
> the credits.  Some other more
> > >> >> obscure games may also be in the
> tactical RPG family tree, but quite
> > a
> > >> >> few have gone the way of the Dodo.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Compare those to the Strategics and
> Narratives, including all of
> > TSR's
> > >> >> D&D and other games, quite a lot
> of FGU's stable, White Wolf, Ars
> > >> >> Magica, and amusingly, Palladium,
> which has somewhat rigorous
> > movement
> > >> >> rules but includes so many exceptions
> and scale blow-outs that combat
> > >> >> is almost always narrative instead.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The divide also broadly coincides
> with the Player Ascendent vs GM
> > >> >> Ascendent phenomenon, though the
> match is not perfect.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Joel
> BoardgameRpger
> > >> >> <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> >>> jim besides gurps and tft, what
> other games would you consider
> > strongly
> > >> >>> tactical.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:48 PM,
> Brett Slocum <
> > brett.slocum@gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> Microlite 20 is not based on
> TFT. Its a very light d20-based
> > system.
> > >> >>>> On Mar 6, 2013 1:26 PM, "Jim
> Kundert" <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> Which is ironic since TFT
> is the grand-daddy of the strongly
> > tactical
> > >> >>>>> RPG combat engines.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at
> 9:51 AM, Geof Gibson <geofgibson@mac.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>> In my experience with
> RPGs, and this system appears to be no
> > >> exception,
> > >> >>>>>> movement is very
> abstracted and subject to the whim of the DM/GM
> > as
> > >> to
> > >> >>>>> how
> > >> >>>>>> long it takes to get
> there.
> > >> >>>>>> The only aspects of
> movement with any regulation is in regards to
> > >> using
> > >> >>>>> DX to
> > >> >>>>>> determine
> initiative.
> > >> >>>>>> Other than that it is
> usually common sense.  The DM isn't going
> > to
> > >> let
> > >> >>>> a
> > >> >>>>> human
> > >> >>>>>> run away from a
> dragon, even if he's Jesse Owens.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013, at
> 10:41 AM, Joel BoardgameRpger wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Im not sure. It
> might be in the second volumn which i downloaded
> > >> >>>>> yesterday.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6,
> 2013 at 11:23 AM, Cris Fuhrman <
> > >> fuhrmanator@gmail.com>
> > >> >>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> I couldn't
> find base rules about movement. Is it totally
> > >> abstracted?
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar
> 5, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Joel BoardgameRpger <
> > >> >>>>>>>> joel.siragher@gmail.com
> > >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> ok im not
> kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> I
> downloaded it, read about 130 pages and it looks good.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > http://blog.retroroleplaying.com/2012/02/microlite20-rpg-collection-2012-edit
> > >> >>>>>> ion.html
> > >> >>>>>>>> =====
> > >> >>>>>>>> Post to the
> entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
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> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Geof Gibson - geofgibson@mac.com
> > >> >>>>>> Please note my email
> address.  I will be retiring my old Cox
> > >> account.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> "When the people fear
> their government, there is tyranny; when
> > the
> > >> >>>>> government
> > >> >>>>>> fears the people,
> there is liberty."
> > >> >>>>>> Thomas Jefferson
> > >> >>>>>> =====
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> > >> > Geof Gibson - geofgibson@mac.com
> > >> > Please note my email address.  I
> will be retiring my old Cox account.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > "When the people fear their government,
> there is tyranny; when the
> > >> government
> > >> > fears the people, there is liberty."
> > >> > Thomas Jefferson
> > >> > =====
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