RE: (TFT) Minimum ST for armor?

[Mark Tapley <mtapley@swri.edu>]

All,
	Regarding the armor discussion:
	I have to admit my inexperience with 38+ point characters. But I'm
surprised that DX is so critical. It seems to me that two rolls go into
each attack:

1) The DX roll. Above adjDX 14 or so, everybody hits.
2) The damage roll. This correlates directly to ST. (well, affected by choice
	of pole weapon, missile weapon, dwarf with axe, etc.).

	Note that the end product of a successful attack is hits put on the
enemy character. Also note that there are two critical "break points" in
number of hits: at 5 hits, enemy will be at -2 DX next turn. At 8 hits,
enemy will fall down, giving me a "free shot" next turn.
	Looked at this way, an adj DX 14 character using a dagger is
*harmless* against chainmail. He may hit every turn, but he'll do almost no
damage. An adj DX 9 character using a ST 14 weapon back against the DX-14
guy will be relatively deadly. He'll only hit every 3rd turn - but he'll do
significant damage.
	As characters go up in total attributes, the same trade off
persists. On the one hand, take enough ST that your hits, when they do
occur, have a good chance of getting through the enemy's armor and putting
8 hits on him. On the other hand, take enough DX that your attacks are
likely to succeed and are likely to go off before the enemy's attack.
	Even at 40 points, it's not obvious to me that the trading is done.
My enemy is likely to be in chainmail + large shield (5 hits) or better, so
I want a weapon that averages 13 hits or so. That's a ST 15 weapon.
Meantime, I want my adjDX to be 14 or so, both so I'll hit first and so
I'll be likely to hit, and that drives my own DX to 19 (to support my own
plate mail). That plus 9 IQ is 43 - I've still got a ways to go. Throw in
Blur rings, enchanted armor, etc., and my choices persist even farther up
the scale.
	There clearly are "break points" in the system. Weapons that
average 8-10 hits (like a spear in a charge attack, or a bastard sword) are
*good things* because of the likelihood of knocking down the opponent.
adjDX 11 or better is a *good thing* because of the rapidly rising
probability of a hit. IQ 9 (Missile weapons, Warrior, Veteran) is a *good
thing*, as is IQ 11 (Tactics, Two Weapons). A character cannot make all the
"break points" at once - in fact, (s)he has to choose among them at almost
every stage.
	That's good, imho. I *like* a complex optimization problem where
there are "peaks" in the playing field rather than a uniform improvement.
Clearly, that's a personal preference. But to continue to homogenize the
continuum of choices has a risk too - it makes it more likely that the
"best" character will become more obvious. The consequence of that would be
that everyone takes the *same* character. I'd *hate* that kind of a
campaign.

>From: "Ty Beard" <tbeard@tyler.net>
>Subject: RE: (TFT) TFT d20: The Heresy Continues...  D&D magic
...
>...My
>perception is that TFT loses a great deal of flavor once the characters
>reach 38+ points. The characters get to where they can do most things most
>of the time, combat becomes boring as everyone hits most of the time, etc.

High-DX -> mostly successes is an issue, but I think d20 postpones it
rather than solving it. That may be OK. I don't see why combat is boring,
but I do think the interest shifts to the damage rolls rather than the
to-hit rolls. But again, I have played way too little with 38-point
characters, so I could be way off base here.

>my question
>in evaluating any mechanic is "do the benefits outweigh the costs?"

Always the critical question, and the answer may vary from campaign to
campaign.

...

>consider a ST11 DX11 IQ10
>character who has earned enough ep to add one point. Assume he is primarily
>a fighter. If he takes 1 point of ST, he will do 1 more point of damage and
>can take one more hit. If he takes a point of DX, he can add a point of
>armor and take 1 more hit *every* time he is hit. It seems to me that the
>latter course is the more intelligent course for fighters.

Not sure I agree. If the added ST takes him from a horsebow to a longbow,
he *does* get 2 extra hits. If it takes him from Broadsword to Bastard
sword, it takes his *potential* damage from 12 up to 16. Even if it only
increases his average damage from (say) 6 to 7, that's an absolutely
critical improvement against a foe with 6 points of armor.

>3. You could introduce a minimum ST requirement for armor and shields. Here
>are some very rough suggestions:
>
>a. Cloth, leather and small shields have no minimum ST (thereby allowing
>thieves and the like to function effectively). Chain is minimum ST 11; Half
>plate is minimum ST 13 and plate is minimum ST 15.

This is the most appealing of your suggestions to me.

>I wonder if you could do some kind of fatigue system lke this:
>
>1. Fatigue (fST) is equal to your ST. Losing fST has no effect until you run
>out of fST. Then you are "winded" and have your MA halved, your DX reduced
>by 4 and your damage with melee weapons reduced by 2. (You can jazz this up
>with rolls and whatnot if you wish).
>
>2. Each turn of combat, you lose 1 fatigue if you're wearing chainmail, half
>plate or plate. You lose 1/2 point if wearing leather or carrying any
>shield.

I'd agree with this, but treat the fatigue as identical to what wizards
suffer - ie you can die from it.

>I would suggest 2 levels:  winded and "exhausted".  You are winded
>when you've lost 3/4 of your fST ... and exhausted when you are
>down to 1 or 2 pts.  At 0, you collapse from exhaustion.

3 hits left and 1 hit left, just as for regular damage and wizard fST.

>Yes, I think that's the real purpose of it. An average man in TFT drops from
>a 50% chance of hitting to a 5% chance when he straps on plate armor --
>surely too extreme.

Against an inanimate target, that'd be ridiculous, I agree. Against an
opponent, who is trying to evade just ahead of your sword, hit you just
before you hit him, a *little* disadvantage might make all the difference
in the world. I believe the 50%-5% change, based on my (small) experience
fencing. (An hour less sleep the previous night could make that much
difference, too.)

							- Mark
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