Re: (TFT) Moria Maps??? --> Hex geometry and Scaling factors of 2.64.

["Charles Gadda" <cgadda@earthlink.net>]

This is the best suggestion. LOU is basically Moria, for all intents and
purposes (I think it even includes a bridge over a lake or abyss of some
sort) and it is designed to be used with TFT. Granted, it is too small for
Moria, but just how vast do you need it to be?

It really depends on how closely you are copying Tolkien. If you really want
something close, you will want the I.C.E. module. It will give a lot of
background, map material, and so forth. Otherwise, just use LOU and populate
it as you see fit. Or even use some of the D&D modules suggested (I don't
think Descent would work as well for Moria, as that is more long miles of a
few tunnels punctuated by a few encounter areas, but Axe of the Dwarven
Lords sounds interesting, though I have never seen it). One could also mix
and match two or more modules even from different game systems.

You'll have to let us know how this comes along!

----- Original Message -----
From: rsmith <rsmith@lightspeed.ca>
To: <tft@brainiac.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: (TFT) Moria Maps??? --> Hex geometry and Scaling factors of
2.64.


> You could pick up a copy of Lords of the Underearth.
> but it would give you a pre-made (tho very small) Dwarven
> mine.  (I would change residential areas shown by a single
> room into clusters of apartments, when turning it into an
> adventure.)
>
> Thinking about the size.  The hexes in LotU are
> Mega-Mega-Mega hexes.  (I'll call this a Level 4 hex.) Such
> hexes are <36 meters across, and have an area of exactly
> 343 hexes  (a single hex is ~1.59600 meters square if my trig
> is correct so a Level 4 hex would have an area of 528.1
> square meters).
>
> (5.28 hectares should be able to feed the peasant
> farmers on the land plus 1 or 2 more people depending on the
> land quality.)
>
> Now that distance across I said was <36 meters.  I got
> that number by multiplying 1.333 meters by three 3 times.
> However, a Mh is not 3 times the width of a regular hex.
> They pack.  I don't see any easy geometric solution, so I am
> going to measure one of my big maps.  (Long Pause.)
>
> Ok, on the Chessex battle map that I've drawn Level 2
> Level 3 and Lv. 4 hexes on, from the center dot to center
> dot of a Lv. 1 hex is 2.54 cm (one inch).  This represents
> 1.333 meters.
>
> By eye, averaging the rough edge of the Level 4 hex,
> I measure it to be 46.7 cm across.
>
> This works out to representing: 24.51 meters across.
>
>
> This is pretty close to 5 times the width of a
> Mega-Mega hex (Lv. 2 hex).  Notice that in ItL page 24,
> second column first paragraph after table at the top of
> the page, Steve Jackson suggests that the size of map
> hexes for larger scale maps be scaled up by factors of
> 5 for later maps.  This would work pretty close IF THE
> ORIGIONAL sized hex were 1.0 meters across.  Since it is
> 1.333 meters, his scaling factor won't match the Mega-hex,
> Mega-Mega hex growth rate.
>
> Also note that LotU specifically stated that its
> hexes were Level 4 TFT hexes.
>
> Anyway, my calculations show a scaling factor of
> 2.64.  Multiply 1.333m by 2.64 = 3.5m (the width of a
> Megahex).  Multiply 3.5m by 2.64 = 9.27m (the width of a
> Mega-Mega hex or a level 3 hex).  Multiply 9.27m by 2.64
> = 24.47m (the width of a Level 4 hex).
>
> (This is pretty close for a scaling factor of 7
> when going up two levels in size rather than SJ's scaling
> factor of 5.)
>
>
> Anyway, back to our original discussion of Moria
> and using the LotU map for it.  I've loaned my copy away
> but It seems to me that there were about 35 hexes across
> it counting via the hex grain.  (Does anyone have the
> exact number?  Don't measure along the alternate hex
> grain, but the width via a straight line measure thru the
> center of an imaginary center dot in one hex to the imag.
> hex dot in the next.)
>
> If we go with the LotU map being 35 hexes across,
> the distance thru that mountain is ~735 meters.  Now
> Tolkien's mountain ranges (in particular the Misty
> Mountains) were unrealistically thin.  But let us say
> that this mountain range was from 30 to 50 km wide.
> (Any one have a way to firm up that number?)  Taking the
> average of my guess at 40 km, Moria should be ~54.5 LotU
> maps across.
>
>
> Summary:
> To reiterate, the LotU map shows you the doors,
> tunnels, and LARGE rooms of a VERY small dwarven mine.
> (Small rooms are not shown and must be interpolated.)
>
> My friend Paul Danielson used to run a TFT campaign
> and wanted to do Moria.  He used dozens of pages of graph
> paper (square grid) and mapped Moria like the Platt river
> (a mile wide and an inch deep).  By that I mean, that he
> had a tonne of area mapped, but it was just thin lines on
> a square grid that had no character or interesting thought
> behind it.
>
> What are peoples feelings about adventuring in a
> dwarven palace?  How would you map it?  This is a subject
> of intense interest to me, as I've ALWAYS wanted to do an
> adventure in Moria.
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tft-owner@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-owner@brainiac.com]On Behalf Of
> Home
> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:20 AM
> To: TFT List (E-mail)
> Subject: (TFT) Moria (Khazad-dum) Maps???
>
>
> would anyone have or know of a web site to get maps of the Mines of Moria
> (Khazad-dum) from the Lord of the Rings -- either home-made or otherwise?
>
> my kids want to do some adventuring in that setting after I have read them
> the books.  I could make up something myself, but it's easier if I have a
> starting point.
>
> thanks a bunch,
> Dave
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