Re: (TFT) My new TFT Web Site

[David Miller <djmiller@i-2000.com>]

PVK--

Thanks for the great input! It's exactly the kind of advice I was
looking for when I posted this. Sometimes you can get so close to a
project that you can't see the obvious flaws. Let me comment on your suggestions:

> It'd be helpful to the Balrog player to have the Balrog special
> combat rules on his character sheet. He'll also need a listing
> for bare hand damage if his sword breaks.

My plan was to simply give the player controlling the Balrog the single
sheet with all of his information on it (page 3 of the pdf file). The
bare hand damage is on his character sheet (based on ST he does 4 dice
of damage with his claws).

> I'd stick with 3/DX to avoid falling into pits...

Good idea. I struggled with the 4/DX roll. I wanted it to be very
dangerous to be on the bridge or next to the pit especially in the
confusion of combat and the darkness of the hall. In the story the
bridge is extremely narrow (it's a defense of the dwarves). That's why I
made it 4/DX. 3/DX may be more realistic. Maybe it should be 3/DX next
to the pit and 4/DX on the bridge? As a side note we had one play test
game where Gimili fell down not once but twice on the bridge and both
times he managed to keep from falling into the pit, a 4/DX roll! (Of
course he died later in the game.)
 
> Victory condition C ends the game and is a subset of condition B,
> so B seems redudant.

Victory condition "B" was given to include Gandalf leaving the board as
a condition of the game ending. What should be changed is victory
condition "C". It should read: "C - When Gandalf has been killed and the
Fellowship player has retreated Frodo."

> ...the crisis was almost past as soon as the
> Fellowship reached the far side. The Balrog couldn't fly, and
> Gandalf could break the bridge. Obvious solution. The whip
> pulling Gandalf in was unexpected. 

As it was in the book. I agree.

> By the time the bridge is
> crossed, the Fellowship has basically won. Even if the bridge
> isn't breakable, Gandalf probably knows a spell that can trip or
> trick the Balrog, or delay or distract him long enough for the
> Fellowship to escape down a narrow passageway.

In the book I always thought that if Gandalf had not removed the Balrog
away from the Fellowship it would have been able to follow them (through
other larger passages and corridors) to the outside where they would
have had a much harder time defeating it. Gandalf knew he had to stop it
then and there and the Bridge was a great place to do it. That's why I
don't allow Frodo to simply run out the far door until the Balrog is
slain and the threat removed. Which brings up a point. In the story why
does the Balrog attack the Fellowship in the first place? Is it the lure
or calling of the ring? Is he pissed off that this small group dares to
enter his domain? Is it the presence of Gandalf? He certainly comes
barreling up from his abode deep in the mountains for some reason. I
always assumed it was because of the ring.
> 
> There is still a very tough scenario to be played, though, in the
> crypt room... So personally I'd follow Tolkien's approach, and make the real
> tactical battle take place in and around the crypt.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm actually working on a
"Balin's Tomb" scenario. I want to use the same statistics for the
Fellowship characters from the "Bridge" game. It might be fun to link
the two scenarios together. Play Balin's tomb first and then immediately
play the bridge scenario. I'll post a rough draft of the tomb scenario
in the next several weeks. After I've nailed down the dimensions of the
tomb I plan on building it in 3D.

> ... Maybe the orcs
> should be more like 28-30 points, and/or more like TFT goblins
> and hobgoblins rather than TFT orcs, and some of them might have
> a DX-spoiling amount of armor on them, etc.

I agree, I use goblin miniatures to represent them (they are Misty
Mountain Goblins after all). I feel that the goblins are chiefly used by
the dark forces player to tactically engage and hold up Fellowship
figures since most of the Fellowship characters should be able to easily
defeat them. Lowering their stats could certainly help play balance.
> 
> However I would include more orcs - essentially unlimited numbers
> of them (perhaps arriving slowly but steadily), and make the map
> larger and perhaps have more terrain. Does Tolkien specify bridge
> dimensions?

I'm not sure about unlimited orcs. That might tip the scales too much
against the Fellowship player. It's probably not necessary as well since
the bridge gets tied up with figures mid game so just bringing on more
figures doesn't help the dark forces at all since he won't be able to
engage or hurt anyone with them (unless they are armed with bows).
Besides he could just hold his Balrog in reserve and let the massing
orcs do all of the fighting.

The size of the board was mainly decided by the simple fact that I was
going to model this in 3D and did not want it to get too big. It also
seems about right in size to me compared to the figures, especially
Gimili. Since I have modeled this already I'll stick to the size of the
board as I have it laid out. (Of course if you ever play it you can make
the board any size you want.)

> I'd say the non-hobbit Fellowship characters could all stand to
> be beefed up, and perhaps even should be, to stay with the book.
> These are world-saving-class heroes....

All of your suggestions about the Fellowship characters are very good.
My original approach was to keep them somewhat normal as opposed to
super human characters to keep the game heading in a tactical direction
with both sides having an opportunity to win rather than load the
Fellowship characters up with such high points that they win every time.
(If I wanted that style of game I'd play with the Games Workshop version
of this scenario!) What you downloaded is my first attempt at play
balance. It was my intention to have the goblins be the easiest to
defeat, the two trolls harder and the Balrog the toughest. However, the
more I think about it I'm tending to lean toward using your suggestions
to "beef up" the Fellowship and tone down the goblins.
> 
> Also, it seems like the dark player might not be allowed to tell
> the hobbits apart, so they can't all go for Frodo.

It could be argued, however, that the power of the ring would draw the
Balrog to it. Tolkien even hints of this. In Balin's Tomb the large orc
chieftain with the spear ducks past all of the other characters and
heads directly for Frodo. I always assumed he knew (or felt) where the
ring was. By having the dark forces know who carries the ring it becomes
important for the Fellowship player to protect Frodo at all costs.

> Ground debris could also give DX
> penalties, which would also tend to help the Fellowship and give
> opportunities for tactics. Fallen bodies during combat should
> also cause broken ground penalties.

I did not mention this but our group randomly places pieces of fallen
masonry and rocks on the board before the start of play. If you look
closely at my photos you can see some of this. (There's a fallen dwarven
statue in one of the shots.) Of course you should use the fallen body
penalties. Pile 'em up high on the bridge I say!

> If Legolas does have Cloth, wouldn't that leave his MA at 12?

You know, what's right? In the rule book it states that Elves wearing
cloth have an MA of 10. Yet cloth isn't supposed to affect your MA at
all which would leave it at a 12. The more I think about it I believe it
should be like everyone else, not effect MA and stay at a 12.
> 
> Gandalf could of course be altered in all sorts of ways, to
> choose what options you want him to be able to have. The ones you
> have suggest that you really want there to be a battle with the
> Balrog and have it done with then and there. 

Your right, I've only listed spells for Gandalf that are totally
offensive. This is a combat scenario. He could of course have other
spells but these are the ones that just seemed right to me.

> and/or say the Balrog will
> run away at a certain damage level, to achieve the balance....

Interesting idea. Maybe when he has 25 or fewer points of ST left?

> As it is, I think I do see one fairly clear solution,
> however. <grin> Want to play or GM a match?

Now I'm curious. I have my ideas as well but I have the advantage of
having play tested this thing a few times and have an idea of what works
and what doesn't. (Sometimes Gandalf can miss when he throws a 20D6
lightning bolt. Not that I've tried that or anything....... ;^)

Thanks for the great input!
--David
> 
> PvK
> =====
> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
> "unsubscribe tft"
=====
Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
"unsubscribe tft"