Re: (TFT) Sprinting and other fST costs.

[Rick Smith <rsmith@lightspeed.ca>]

Hi Ty,
 	No, sprinting is considered a subset
of the run full MA option so you never get
an attack.

	I allow people to spend upto 5 fST
to temporally increase their ST for two 
turns.  (Making a great effort.) 1 fST =
1 ST.

	I used to have a complicated set
of rules for using fST in battle, but now
I just say, if it is a long fight, people
lose 1 fST in cloth or less, 2 fST in 
leather, chain or scale, or 3 fST in
heavier armor.

	Regards, Rick


On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 04:08, Ty Beard wrote:
> Rick --
> 
> Can a sprinting figure only 1/2 of his MA (which is doubled) and still
> execute an attack or similar option?
> 
> Also, do your house rules contain any fST reduction for any other combat
> activities (fighting too long, etc.)?
> 
> --Ty
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rick Smith" <rsmith@lightspeed.ca>
> To: <tft@brainiac.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:34 PM
> Subject: (TFT) Sprinting.
> 
> 
> > Hi Charles,
> > I for some time have used sprinting rules
> > where you may double your MA (but you triple the
> > penalties for terrain) at a cost of 1 fST / 2 turns.
> > It works well.  I also have a Racing talent which
> > adds another 2 hexes to your movement.  If we
> > assume that one in one hundred people start at 12
> > MA (very long legs, genetic predisposition to run
> > fast), then using these rules it is almost possible
> > to run a 4 minute mile if you have 30 ST to pay all
> > the fST to sprint the whole time.  I consider this
> > to be quite realistic.
> >
> > Human hunters have such huge endurance that
> > they can catch most prey but simply chasing it until
> > it drops from exhaustion.
> >
> > I think the combat turn is fine.  I the
> > speed thing bothers you, use your sprinting rules.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 19:11, Charles Gadda wrote:
> > > This has probably been touched on before, but I recently did a little
> > > digging and came up with some profound disconnects between movement and
> time
> > > in Melee/TFT and the real world. Which is all right, to an extent, but
> > > perhaps this ought to be looked at a bit more closely.
> > >
> > > Let us consider that the "average" human has an MA of 10, which means
> that
> > > he can run 10 hexes in a single 5 second turn per canon. How does this
> > > compare with reality? Not well - an average person can generally run
> about
> > > ~15mph or thereabouts, which works out to about 5 hexes ***per
> second***, or
> > > an actual MA of 25! It gets worse when one considers a trained runner.
> In
> > > TFT they have an MA of 12, but the fastest human on record (Tim
> Montgomory
> > > in the 100m dash) averaged about 23mph, with an instantaneous speed of
> > > 26.5mph, which would be 9.75 hexes per second, or an instantaneous MA of
> > > close to 50(!).
> > >
> > > Once one considers the animal kingdom, everything goes out the window. A
> > > Cheetah can attain a top speed of roughly 67-68mph, with a corresponding
> MA
> > > of 125 (!!!). Plainly, TFT is way off with a lot of its math, here. As
> an
> > > aside, this is probably one reason why SJ went to one second rounds - a
> > > person can rapidly run off the map on any larger time scale!
> > >
> > > Worse, some of the apparent scaling is way off, as well. In TFT a brown
> or
> > > grizzly bear has an MA of 8. However, in the real world these critters
> have
> > > been clocked at around 35 mph, or more than double the average running
> speed
> > > of a human. Thus, a "scale" MA of 20 would be a lot closer to reality.
> > >
> > > As a point of fact, there are few large land animals that humans can
> outrun.
> > > We're pretty darn slow, all things considered.
> > >
> > > There are two underlying problems here:
> > >
> > > 1. Semantics - the definition of MA as one's "top speed" is a misnomer.
> At
> > > best it represents something of a "jogging" speed that can be sustained
> over
> > > a fairly long distance. Which, BTW, is quite reasonable for combat.
> > > 2. The time scale might be too long. A lot can happen in 5 seconds, to
> say
> > > nothing of ground covered.
> > >
> > > The first problem can be solved by defining MA as a top jogging speed,
> and
> > > creating a new "sprint" option that allows you to run at double MA at a
> cost
> > > of 1 fatigue per turn. This technically understates MA somewhat (in the
> > > average example, you'd only make 20 vs. 25 hexes per round) but it is
> easier
> > > to calculate at a glance and I think it fits the "close enough for
> > > government work" criteria to be eminently usable. We only need reflect
> > > reality, not slavishly adhere to it.
> > >
> > > Of course, animals are still a problem. For the cheetah, half of 125 is
> > > 67.5, which is hardly helpful. However, it may be that with animals
> their
> > > "jogging" or "combat" speed is not so high and does not follow the same
> > > proportions as a human type, and may only represent, say, < (as opposed
> to
> > > =) or less of their top speed. Anybody have any insight into this? DMG
> II?
> > > (don't know if you know or not, but you're so chock full of esoteric
> > > knowledge I thought I'd ask.). If there is a basis in truth here, it
> would
> > > solve a number of problems. In the bear example, their "combat" MA would
> > > come down to about 14-15 or so (perhaps less), which would be
> manageable,
> > > but clearly make them faster than humans. And of course they could still
> > > sprint at high MAs to catch the unwary. Cheetahs would probably just
> need to
> > > be scaled down a lot, period.
> > >
> > > Something else to consider with animals is that in most cases they
> attain
> > > their top speeds for only very short runs and tire quickly - even moreso
> > > than we do. I do not know enough on this to fit it in to the mix here,
> but I
> > > am aware of it in outline. I think it would be very helpful if this were
> > > understood better.
> > >
> > > One could also consider reducing the combat turn from 5 to 3 seconds,
> which
> > > would further allow things to be "scaled down" to a more manageable
> level.
> > > Going beyond movement, it would also help when contemplating things like
> > > rates of fire out of modern semi and full auto firearms, for example,
> since
> > > it would help "scale down" that as well. Not really in favour of this,
> but
> > > it is a legitimate point, and thought it should be brought up.
> > >
> > > Suggestions?
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