Re: (TFT) Rant riposte

["John J Hyland" <johnnyboytmm@juno.com>]

David,
   Your rant was alot to digest, but I thought I'd try responding to a few
bits.  mainly the simple bits that I could follow, since I am a simple gamer.
But even at that it is pretty long, so enter at your own risk.


------------- "David Michael Grouchy II"
wrote:--------------------------------------------

I     If you want to role play, just get two people together.
II    Now that we see we can act.
III   The 26 letter alphabet is to hieroglyphs, what TFT is to D&D.
IV   The genera has been done before.
V    Yes.
VI    What ever ultimate bad guy we can create.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------

First, I'd like to point out that my 9 yr old son goes to school with a pencil
box (though it is plastic and not covered in fabric).  In addition to pencils
erasers and markers, he also has his compass, ruler,  and protractor in it.
His younger brothers use pencil cases (soft sided) as they do not have the
compass et al, which requires a sturdier carrier.  So rest assured, the pencil
box is not dead.
Similarly I don't think the Kitchen table is dead either.  I know I still play
on mine, maybe only 6 campaign sessions a year, but we play nonetheless, and I
play other parlor games there as well with family and friends.
>  If you want to role play, get two people together.
Agreed;  though "together" is a relative term.  One of my players, Tom,  plays
in a weekly D&D campaign hosted by another friend who lives accross the
country, the other players all gather around the table, and Tom
videoconferences in over the internet.


>     I submit that the wheel has turned.  Follower ship is the new Zeit
Geist.
>  A version of D&D of this day would have statistics on a 3d6 scale
like "number of clubs joined"
I just do not see it.  Today's D&D still dominates the RPG market, and it is
all about the individual (and the party) and his stats, skills and magic
items.  And of course combat and spells and being the hero and killing the
dragons.  In real life most folks are followers, but in our fantasies we are
usually something special, doing the great deeds that may well elude us in our
day jobs.

> I'm not sure that republishing them would get entry into the gaming
world.
Well, if I owned the rights, I'd clean up the writing and editing a bit, make
HTH a little clearer, maybe add a few more spells and skills, like a few more
non-combat spells (though not too many - don't want to make the list too big),
stat out a few more creatures, and maybe make dying just a little bit harder.
But at its core it would be TFT, much the way I play it today - just in a
shiny new box.
See the thing I love about TFT is its elegant simplicity,  it strikes me that
it would not be TFT without it.  It would therefor make (and did make) a great
intro to RPGs.  I'd recommend a couple of simple arena combats to familiarize
the new gamer with the combat system,  and maybe include an intro adventure to
get things started.  Simple enough to play right out of the box (or at least
shortly thereafter) but elegant, and well balanced enough to continue playing
for decades (as we all have).  To me, that is the core of TFT, and those are
timeless gaming values (like a pencil box provides timeless value).  Maybe it
would not dominate the RPG market, but I think my vision of TFT2 would find a
place in it.  Just like Gameboys may be more ubiquitous among today's kids
than pencil boxes, the updated classic (plastic pencil box) still performs and
fills its niche.
The Math Detour is interesting, if more fully fleshed out I could see it
forming the basis of a squad level, or mass combat, expansion for TFT2, so you
can determine the outcome of giant battles quickly to get back to the impact
of the players.   It would be good if there was a way for PCs to influence
those big battles as a modifier of some kind too (where I think UnderEarth was
headed).   But I don't have the patience to actually examine the math, sorry.
Your VSRPS seems like interesting scenarios that you could play out with a
good RPG, like say TFT, or TFT2.  I don't know if they need a whole new game
per  se to pursue them though.
And while I have played and enjoyed D&D lo those many years ago, I still love
your quote
"The 26 letter alphabet is to hieroglyphs, what TFT is to D&D."



On to the discussion of the TFT List
>     Like this one ... still one of my favorites.  A wizard is using magic
>rainstorm to heal a water elemental 4D a turn, while draining 10 fatigue to
>get 2 for himself.  He has invented the unlimited fatigue battery.  I asked
>"how would you rule?"  I chuckle every time I read this reply.

>>Thu, 25 Mar 2004
>>NO.  It doesn't work, because it is too weaselly, and I don't allow
>>weaselly stuff in my game.
>>John J Hyland
OK, I'll admit I included the above because I was tickled that you quoted me.
Of course that discussion eventually made clear that the idea was not within
the rules, because the rules to TFT are REALLY WELL WRITTEN, and so avoid
weaselly stuff without GM fiat.
And I agree that the TFT List is a great thing, and the websites maintained by
its members very helpful. (once again thanks everyone, especially Joe for
maintaining this list)  And your stories are really entertaining (quite
frankly I still want to know what happens to Uncle and the girls, and what the
"glamour Trip" wizard (whose name escapes me) sees in the future and adopts to
help beat back the demons on Branya), and your quizzes (like the above) are
fun, especially when they lead to group discussions and expositions.
But you kinda lost me on the meta-gaming thing.   If you find the
discussion/design/story writing of games more fun than playing them, perhaps
your tastes have evolved and changed over time (whose haven't) but that does
not mean that gaming is less fun for everybody.  I imagine there are gaming
clubs in High Schools and colleges still where people with more free time than
us old folk get together and game the hours away.   Of course I have no actual
data to support that belief, but in a couple of yeasr when my boys hit HS I
should have a better sense of how HS works these days.

>   c)  Do we even know who our market is, and if we listen to that market
> will they really ask for TFT.
I don't know what the market is like, just what I like.  Should I ever try to
participate in the market I suppose I'd need to know.  But as I said above, I
think there would be a place for TFT2 in gaming.
>   I conclude with these words.  The genera has been done before.

It has, but to my mind, it has not been done better - at least not for my
gaming needs.



>    I conclude with these words.  What ever ultimate bad guy we can create,
it needs a name.

Almost Home.  I don't think the rules need an ultimate bad guy.  Back when I
played D&D Orcus et al were just another monster.  there was a clear
progression - Orc, Ogre, Giant, Lich, Orcus, Demigod, Deity, Player Character
gone bad, new badguys created by the DM, end of the campaign.  The big bad is
adventure related, I think, not game related, at least that's how it is for
me.
regards,
John






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