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Re: (TFT) Action Report - DCG's "The Dark Vale"; also rules comments

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Tapley" 
Subject: (TFT) Action Report - DCG's "The Dark Vale"; also rules comments




We played with several house rules. One we particularly liked
is the "mostly dead" rules ("I've seen worse") under which a
character isn't irremediably dead until his ST goes to a negative
value equal to his normal uninjured ST. At less damage than that, he
can be physicked or healing-potioned back to life, if he makes a roll
of less than ((original ST) - (amount below 0 post-potion and
post-Physick)). This helped a lot; we lost two characters, at least
one of whom turned out to be absolutely crucial later on, but were
able to revive both. However, we think maybe these rules take *too*
much of the sting out of dying. I think maybe it would be a good idea
for a "mostly dead" character to lose some attribute points upon
revival; maybe (amount below zero as wounded)/2, rounded up, maximum
5 points?



Hee hee hee...
Who want's to die?
I've found that the vast majority of GM's actually go out of their way NOT to kill my Figure even when I'm trying to put it in situations that will kill it on purpose. Rolling up a Figure in AD&D was a real task, many first sessions consisted of nothing but character creation. Not so with TFT (Melee was BUILT for quick kills) but the psycological stigma of death remains. 
Who want's to live forever?
I do...


Indigo turned out to be quite effective, to my shock. Turns
out the fencing double-damage bonus (or better) comes up over 16% of
the time, and with two attacks/turn that means every 3rd turn or so
he can expect to see it.



Apply this to a unit of Indigos.



I played the leader, and had a blast trying to rattle off
Vizzini quotes at the appropriate moments. ("... but only slightly
less well known is this: Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is
on the line! Ah hah hah hah hah...." )



I have to ask here, ever read the book?
I HIGHLY recomend Goldmans "good parts" version.
At the very end, just after they rode away on the princes white stallions everything went very, very wrong. A happy ending it was not, nor unhappy either, rather the thing ended in flux. 


The Hobbits. Sigh. They came through like troopers, which was
kind of the problem, in some views. A 34-point Hobbit, with racial
bonuses, Thrown Weapons, a fist full of Sha-ken, and a copy of
Advanced Melee flipping back and forth between "Dagger Marksmanship"
and "Aimed Shots" rules (AM pp.20-22) turns out to be death on two
(short) legs. Big, dangerous opponents - dagger to the head. Numerous
weak opponents - sha-ken snowstorm. Medium opponents - either way.
Our referee was somewhat frustrated with our MO of ringing up,
defending the hobbits, and letting them pick off his best fighters
with aimed daggers and sha-ken.



Who let the Hobbits into the Wal-Mart of weapons?
Where is the building in Hobbit Town that makes sha-ken?
I'm going to burn down THAT building if the little f-ers give me any trouble. Of course, if Hobbit civilization only has bronze tec... I wonder what bronze sha-ken would be like? 


Challenges of being a GM.
Hate hobbits. Tolkien would take back every word he ever wrote if he
knew that gamers just use his hobbits as thieves and assassins.


;-) Bilbo Baggins *was* a thief. Somewhat reluctant and not
too clever about it, but hey.

But yeah, I'm not clear about where the swarms of Murderous
Psycho Ninja Sniper (MPNS) Hobbits come from either, from a
role-playing point of view. They are definitely not cute and fuzzy,
like hobbits are supposed to be.

Does anyone else have issues with the MPNS Hobbit concept? It
really does seem like a very *very* effective character, and one that
seems to take such strong advantage of a set of rules that it almost
forms a loophole.



This one is only a loophole if the GM allows MPNS Hobbits outta thin air.
Playing with resources makes leadership posistions a LOT more intresting.
Did you know that when Henery went to France there wasn't a goose left in 3 days travel radius from London? 
The Fletchers used em up.


Sha-Ken and Hobbits- what's wrong with hobbits being the dominant
missile thrower in at least one game setting?


On the subject of loopholes, here's a list of things that
seemed unfairly powerful in general in the rules, to one or more
players:


Sha-Ken (particularly in combination with MPNS Hobbits)
Naginata
Boomerang
Nun-chuk
Molotails
Gunpowder
These are all Things and can be limited by the GM through the simple expedient of not putting these items on the list of items for sale. It could take up to a year and a half to make a composite bow... only a swordsmith can make a sword... a white-smith works in tin... 


Initiative bonus for having Strategist
I instead let these Figures act as "Leaders" (like Squad Leader) that can Move and Action Units of Figures. Having the Leaders Unit in proper formation, readiness and etc. gives the Unit certian advantages in setup and initiative for tactical engagements but like a King in his throneroom, if the assassin makes it into the room then the King is no longer playing Civilization but is now forced to play Quake. 


Reaction roll bonus for a Charismatic Hobbit with New Followers

Most just seem overly powerful for the IQ cost to master
them, particularly in comparison with e.g. Unarmed Combat, which can
soak up an amazing number of IQ points to really exploit. The generic
answer, I think, is that if the party uses them, the party can expect
to face them, at least where the adventure is not pre-canned.


the "making friends and influencing people" skill ... seems too
overpowered on a D6 reaction roll. Maybe make reaction rolls be 2D6.
... it could really alter the game play in an open ended setting
(Nazgul walks up, <character> wins him over, <character> and Nazgul
are now buds?) .
"Indigo turned out to be quite effective, to my shock. Turns out the fencing double-damage bonus (or better) comes up over 16% of the time, and with two attacks/turn that means every 3rd turn or so he can expect to see it. " 

Let's see... 1 / 6 ~16.66666666666666666...%?
Yeah, that's right...
Every 15 seconds Indigo is gonna double up.
A turn in Squad Leader is 2 minuets.
8 double damages in 1 turn of Squad Leader.
Interesting...


Strategy and Tactics- again, seemed overpowering using D6. Our party
went first like 80% of the time (it seemed) which doesn't seem
realistic when facing bands of hardened foes. Maybe make Initiative
a 2D6 roll as well. S&T would still be very useful, but one side
doesn't consistently dominate the battlefield. It seems like
deciding who moves when is the single best benefit to have in ITL
combat




If you can see it comming you can react (Action) properly.
These are FANTASY Figures we're talking about here, i.e. Jay isn't Arnold/Conan except in his head. 
I can count how fast you can see in hexes.
See posts about pitching a baseball.
How fast you can see counts up just like Indigos 16% over larger scales.
Over long time-scales this is how fast you can study.
The middle ground here is your daily schedule... the amount of time a day/week the Figure has to spend to maintain Tallents via practice/study.
DX = 1 second / Figures DX; this is reaction time or the actual speed of the movements needed to compleate the Action IQ = 2 seconds / Figures IQ; this is the time required to see and react to an Action. See times required to react to a baseball pitch. 





Regarding Aimed shots in general:


A character with strength six should not be able to do six points of
damage (on an aimed shot) that puts a 30 ST character out of the
game from such a distance and at virtually no risk at all.
This is the problem of putting the damage into the tool rather than counting the force from the Figure. 
2d6 for a bloody flying stick.
1pt ST = 5.5 lbs @ 1fps



Head shots- way too overpowering. I would have been very frustrated
as the GM with so many front line types going down in one shot.


I might scale the number of hits needed for all of the aimed
shot effects up by the ST of the target - 6 points for a nominal
16-ST human, so 10 points for a 30-ST boss. Generally, similar to the
"Reactions to Injury" rules on AM pp 18.
Useing scale hexes I can say that almost all human heads (maybe not the Elephant Man, etc.) fit into a box 3 squares by 3 squares by 2 squares, and a face has an area boxed by 3 squares by 2 squares or 6 squares @ 3.25" per square. 
I have a copy of Grays Anatomy.
Remember the "Visable Man" models?
A human is 8 heads tall and about 3 heads wide at the shoulders, or a box (standing at 'attention') of 24 heads face on. 
How much force did you hit with?
Who want's to learn field surgery?
ST is for Fatigue, NOT HP's.



Regarding shield-rushes:

Is it legal to "Defend" against a shield-rush?

Comments? Has anyone figured out how to use shield-rush effectively?
The Superbowl is coming up (GEAUX Saints!) so let's use lineplay as an example here. As I pointed out, a play averages about 1 TFT turn of actual, physical effort. A shield rush is an example of 'when' in the 5 seconds A Figure gets knocked on its fanny becomes important. 
Figure A is pass rushing while Figure B is blocking.
Figure C is the quarterback.
Figure C is useing a "4 step drop".
Useing square hexes I can actually show the footsteps needed for the most direct path to the quarterback for Figure A, and thusly how far a push/block/shield rush from B moves A off this line. A 'deflection' of A by B of a foot or two (1 or 2 squares) means an additional hex of movement for A to reach C. 
This too works like Indigios double damage kicking in @ ~16%




Regarding play-aids:


I love minis, they can really add life to the board- too bad they
don't make them with hex bases any more, although the circular
bases didn't seem to be much trouble


    MAN I agree. I think even Mark is sold at this point, although I
don't know how any of us are going to get together a mini set that
looks ANYTHING like yours ... I think you have an open invite to
every gaming session ever again...   :)


Correct, miniatures help a lot. I think I'm convinced now of
their utility, whereas I was not before. One of the players brought
extra-thick counters (glued to foam-board) which were good too.



Scale is good for common visuals...


I think if you hit someone's turn to act and they are gone from the
gaming table then they miss their actions.




Hee hee hee... the Figure just "spaces out".


Everyone have their own dice and roll in a jar or a bowl. You could
say that a die off the table is an automatic missed roll.


:-) OK, I can live with that. It would be interesting to see
what fraction of the lost time really was bad die rolls.



?
What do the "dice" represent?
A droped Initiative die is diffrent from a droped die from a 3d6 roll. Missed but no fumble? 





... I really don't know the answer to taking a premade and making
it more open ended. Didn't really like the "Do you do A,B,or C?"
approach. B/C invariably players want to do option D, which can
make for a lot of on the fly fun. I also think the opponents could
have been scaled a little tougher, but as a GM I try to make
players wet their pants sometimes- ... I never got that "Oh crap,
we are in for it" feeling  (although I did leave the game early)



Players are all about thinking outside of the box, ergo give em a big box.




the ITL system builds an idea where different kinds of characters
can fight and some can win while some loose and there is not a
sure winner ...


...very perceptive comment. It's a little like
"rock/scissors/paper" - any one character will be hyper-effective in
some situations but will have an Achilles Heel in others. If the
party is diverse, your buddies can cover for you when you are weak,
and vice versa. I think that's OK, and it's up to the GM to challenge
the party in a variety of ways so each character gets to shine.



LOL
Pucker factors and shineing on characters is about as open ended as a movie script. This isn't a bad thing, but it does put the GM in the possistion of a story writer. The idea of story leads to "do you choose a,b or c?" with the players going for d. 
Open ended works the other way.
The sum total of all player actions IS the story.


Again, more specific details on request. I think I have or
can get character stats for any of the characters that's of interest.
I wouldn't want you to reveal a bunch about the adventure as a whole, but I'd be real curious to hear about one of your more memorable battles... 
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