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Re: (TFT) Swimming



Perhaps a Beowulf vs. Grendel's mother underwater battle?
On Jul 24, 2011, at 2:59 AM, Jay Carlisle wrote:

Lately Ive been dealing with water.
Lots and lots of water.
Start with islands and its kind of in your face from a planetary pov.
So first things first, I wanna check out the TFT basics on the subject.



IQ 8 TALENTS

SWIMMING (1). General swimming ability. This talent also increases your
chances of surviving a fall into water, even in armor.

IQ 9 TALENTS

DIVING (1). Prerequisite: the SWIMMING talent. A character with DIVING is a
skilled and confident swimmer - see WATER in the combat section. An
unarmored diver may attempt to save another
figure from drowning. The diver rolls 3 dice against his own DX unless the drowning figure is in plate or chain. The attempt must be made AS SOON AS the drowning figure fails its own DX roll to stay afloat. Only one attempt may be made. If the diver fails his DX roll, he must make another roll (3 dice vs. DX) or be drowned himself. A diver may also attempt resuscitation (see DEATH) on any character if the body is recovered within 36 turns (3 minutes) of that character's drowning. To succeed, the Diver rolls 4 dice against his own IQ. He subtracts 1 from the roll if he is a Physicker, 3 if
he is a Master Physicker.

Water
The difficulty of movement and combat in or under the water depends on the
figures abilities and waters depth.
Water up to about ankle-height has the same effect as broken ground (above). Water up to the knees has the same effects, and cuts MA in half as well. Water from that height to about neck-height has the above effects, except that it cuts a walkers MA to 2. Any Figure who falls must make a saving roll (see below) to avoid drowning. Combat is at -6 DX and is highly unwise. A Figure may walk through water over his head at MA 2, holding his breath. The number of turns you can hold your breath underwater is equal to your ST. Add 10 turns if you have the SWIMMING talent, 20 if you have DIVING. If you fall, you must make a saving roll (3 dice vs. DX) to stand up next turn  and you do not move, regardless. If you run out of breath before you get to shallow water, you must make a saving roll against drowning (as below). All the above assume the Figures are heavily loaded enough to walk through the water. Figures carrying less weight (in kg) than their ST may dog-paddle at MA 2 (for nonswimmers) or swim (for those with the ability). Combat for a dog-paddler is treated just as though he were walking (above). Swimmers and Divers fight at -4 DX and swim at MA 6. Mermen swim at MA 10 and have no DX- in the water. Anyone except a merman can fall in combat while swimming. If someone gets a fall result, his head went under! Treat it as you would an ordinary fall in combat on land AFTER the saving roll vs. drowning is made 
see below.
Drowning: A Figure who falls while in water over his neck, or any Figure who unexpectedly falls or is pushed into water that deep, must make a saving roll against adjDX. This is a 4-die roll for nonswimmers, a 2-die roll for swimmers, and automatic success for Divers. Success means you dont drown. You can crawl out (if theres something to hold onto), stand up (if the water is shallow), or stay afloat (if you cant get out). A Figure who makes a roll, but has to stay afloat, must immediately shed armor, drop weapons,
etc, until he is carrying less weight than his ST. Failure to do this
results in drowning. A Figure who misses the saving roll also drowns.
Drowning means death unless (a) the Figure is immediately rescued by a
Diver, or (b) the body is pulled out and resuscitated by a Diver.

IQ 14 SPELLS

FRESH AIR (T): The subject of this spell can breathe normally, regardless of where he may be  entombed in rock, underwater, surrounded by noxious gases, etc. The spell magically brings him air from elsewhere. ST cost: 2 to cast,
plus 1 per minute to maintain.




Okay thats the obvious stuff with other references scattered here and
there, especially info on falling.
Im not going to chase that down because this is enough to let me know that Im going to have to tweek things abit to get the imaginative effects Im
interested in conveying.

TFT is showing its dungeon-crawl roots pretty strongly here as the Figure literally walks deeper and deeper in as the reading of the rule goes on.
Once we get the Figure swimming the drowning rules are a bit harsh for
Figures in a strong marine play environment, at least for my tastes.
For example, A Figure who makes a 'saving' roll, but has to stay afloat 'that turn', must immediately shed armor, drop weapons, etc, until he is carrying less weight than his ST. Failure to do this results in drowning. This reads that a Figure of average ST with the Swimming Talent wearing a pack much over 20 pounds in a situation in which it must stay afloat for more than 5 seconds drowns automatically regardless of whether or not it makes the Save because it takes 2 turns to remove a pack and just over 22
pounds exceeds the Figures ST in kg, Swimming Talent or no.
Allow about 3 pounds for clothing and the pack has to go but it takes 2 turns to do that and next turn isnt very immediate ergo theres really
nothing the Figure can do via a straight reading of the as is rules.
In a dungeon Frame this can be easily shrugged off as a fluke of the rules
if the situation ever comes up at all but in other play settings, like
Venice for instance, this situation could come up quite commonly and it seems a bit harsh to drown poor ol Joe Average over a stone and a half,
especially if hes got the Swimming Talent.
Then there are some real conceptual problems with combat as described.
It seems to assume that combat while swimming is something like water polo
where, If someone gets a fall result, his head went under!
Except Mermen dont fall while fighting while swimming?
Mermen fight underwater with no DX-; they use only knives, pole weapons, and nets, since these are the most practical weapons underwater. On land
they will fight if pressed, but at -4 DX (Diving for land?).
And the whole bit about the Fresh Water spell is a bit interesting
apparently Mermen require fresh water to breathe.
Nonetheless Mermen seem to breathe water and are described as fighting with weapons practical for underwater (nets arent practical underwater as a hand weapon) so it seems they cant fall into drowning because they are already
drowning so to speak.
This is a pretty specific imaginative picture and from the Mermans pov this
is pretty much a mirror image of flying.
It would seem that a Figure with Diving should be able to meet a Merman on
his turf, at least for a few turns at a go.
So I figure, if youre gonna put Figures in a play environment like Venice
then youre gonna need to have a better idea about this water stuff.

Well first theres the Grand Canal and its offshoots.
Venice, being on an archipelago in a lagoon off the Adriatic (X-10), the water level is going to be subject to tides and weather to some extant but the average depth for the Grand Canal is about 17 feet, or ~4 hex- heights of ~4.3 feet each, if each Melee-hex were considered a column as tall as it is
wide from side to side.
For Joe Hero standing 6 feet tall this would be roughly nipple height, or 6
heads proportionally.
By this measure it would take a fluid level of 1.5 hex-heights to completely cover 6 tall Joe Hero to the top of his head (with ~half a foot of slack in
case he tries standing on his tippytoes).
It very roughly averages about 60m wide, about 46 Melee-hexes.
Main branches off the Grand seem to be roughly half that (~2 hex- heights by
24 Melee-hexes) and the many offshoots from the main branches seem to be
roughly half again in dimensions (~1 hex-height by >12 Melee-hexes).
These swimmable roads are pretty neat to contemplate, although in a world of Mermen (that can breathe saltwater) and common magic with Spells like Fresh Air and Speed Movement (Slippery Floor underwater?) I kinda doubt the
Doge would have relocated there for safety in the 9th century mainly
because 3d roads are harder to defend than 2d roads are.
Still, even in a world with no magic at all theres still Swimming, Diving,
and snorkels, air bladders, etc.
A Figure might not need a Spell to approach the Doges private dock unseen.
That brings up MA.

Water up to about ankle-height has the same effect as broken ground. (-2DX,
if move over half MA 3d6 save vs. DX or fall)

Proportionally Joe Hero is 8 heads tall.
Instead of using ankles, knees, neck as levels for die-mods I look at how
many heads deep the water level is to Joe Hero proportionally.
In the simplest cases I assign a -1DX and -2MA per 1 Joe Hero head- depth of
water (9 inches).
Using TFT MA with Running this has the Joe Hero Figure at one half MA in water 9 inches above his knees (mid-thigh), and 2 MA in water up to his
navel (5 head-depths, 4 w/o Running).
At 6 head-depths of water Joe Hero is up to his nipples and the water level
is at 1 hex-column in height.
At this point I consider Joe to be at 1 MA.
Joe can attempt faster movement than this by expending fST.
For depths of 4 heads or less Joe can spend 1fST per turn to reduce the negative MA modifier by 1 that turn and spend 2fST to eliminate the modifier
altogether that turn.
Joe must make a successful save vs. DX to avoid falling any turn he attempts additional effort with 1fST checking @ 3d6 and 2fST @ 4d6 with a -1 DX per
head-depth.
A humanoid Figure is able to raise its head above 4 head-heights from its hands and knees and is only about a head shorter knelling making it fairly
difficult to drown at these depths barring more unusual circumstances.
Between 5 to 7 head-depths a Figure is wading with their legs and hips below
water.
These Figures take their MA modified for head-depth of the water and add an additional 50% to the modified MA, rounding down to the nearest whole-number
MA for a 1fST effort that turn.
A wading Figure may double its adjMA for a 2fST effort that turn.
Wading Figures must make a successful save vs. ST to avoid falling any turn they attempt additional effort with 1fST checking at 3d6 and 2fST @ 4d6, with a negative modifier equal to 4 less than the current head- depth.
This is where drowning starts to become more likely.
These are also depths where Swimming starts to kick in.

A quick look at Wikipedia (fwiw) suggests that there are three historical styles that seem to be somewhat culture dependant; the front crawl, the
breaststroke, and the dog paddle.
It also mentions that swimming in armour was one of the seven agilities of
knights in the Middle Ages.
The dog paddle seems to be the least strenuous and keeps the head above
water at all times.
The breaststroke also keeps the head above water but expends more effort for
additional speed.
The front crawl brings the head underwater at times and expends the most
effort for the greatest speed.
Two occasions are mentioned in the pre-Olympic era where the breaststroke
was swum competitively against the crawl with the crawl performing
significantly better in each race.
About 10 seconds better over a distance of 100 yards completing the distance in 1 minute, or 70 hexes in 12 turns, about 6 MA for the crawl compared to 5
MA for the breaststroke at winning race speeds (fST effort).
Im tempted to do something like 3 MA for a distance paced crawl at normal
effort and 2 MA for the breaststroke but allowing much more additional
weight to be carried with the breaststroke than the crawl.
A Figure swims faster underwater than on top of water so mer-folk might get a +1 MA for Swimming underwater and another +1 MA for the webbed hands and
feet.
That would have a Merman complete the 100 yards in well under 9 turns @ 8 MA for an underwater crawl stroke at a race-winning pace under 45 seconds. Add a few things like kick turns off the canal walls and some water- ballet type maneuvers of various difficulty and it starts to feel a bit more like
what Im trying to get at with Swimming and Diving.
The head-height/depth stuff lets me set a water level and find where it is
proportionally to a party of different sized Figures.
Poor lil 'obbits.

Id be curious to know if anyone else has done anything with a strong
element of swimming and underwater mucking about and how they dealt with it.

Anyway, Im off to talk to the little people of Atlantis and Angkor
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