Re: (TFT) Jobs table: 100,000 simulated soldiers and farmers

[Jay Carlisle <maou.tsaou@gmail.com>]

On Friday, September 23, 2011, Peter wrote:

> Jay, you make some interesting points, but they are all overridden by
ideas such as:
>
> * Economics is all an invention. There is no predictable cause and effect.

I wouldn't quite go so far as saying NO predictable cause and effect but I
get your point and agree.

> * Economics are very complicated. It's almost impossible to track
accurately in your head.

I don't know... the economics of Easter Island isn't TOO bad... but again I
hear and get it.

> * Only a small part of GM's want to make much of their campaign dynamic
and subject to rules, math and record-keeping, and economics are not one of
the things most of even those GM's would choose to rules, math and
record-keeping, even if they (wrongly, I think) thought that it was valid to
apply rules and such to economics. Though there will be some such GM's such
as yourself, and more power to them. (And there are some economic games that
could be consulted - see Metagaming's Trailblazer, for example.) However
that doesn't mean that any other GM's need to do so.

I agree again, although I'd like to clear up a couple of points.
I'm not so much thinking economic rules as I am economic descriptions.
I want to "see" what my GM sees and want my players to see what I see as
much as possible.
The more everybody is on the same page imaginatively so to speak the better
my sessions tend to run I find.
This isn't such an issue with long standing groups in general I'd guess but
over the last several years I've had a rotating group where old people leave
and new ones come in, many who have little to no experience with RPG's at
all much less TFT.
Oregon's aways off from texas on the MUCH more lightly populated side of the
Mississippi.

Not only is there the newbie issue I also need a lot of this info for war
and kingdom building.
As someone pointed out, if a player builds a trip hammer mill then the Dark
Lord has a new military target.
If a GM isn't interested in that kind of play then frame it to the players
that way leave it out.
Just don't present the game as an open campaign to players where they have
full choice of Talents if your not gonna let them have full use of something
like Shipbuilder, Architect/Builder, or Engineer IMO as that dose not add
much enjoyment to the game.
That's like telling me I can't use Business Sense to try and swindle any
Figure I chance to see (w/o Business Sense) after play has begun and I've
already got the Talent.
"Pssst! Buddy! Over here. I've got these seven daggers... for you I'll sell
one for $20."

And I'm FAR too lazy to do all the bookkeeping all by my lil' ol' lonesome.
If a player builds it then that player's in charge of it, bookkeeping, GMing
and all.
I just sit back and referee unless the Dark Lord's got skin in the game in
which case it behoves me to have paid attention to description ahead of play
so players can be confident that I'm not having the Dark Lord pull resources
outta his neather regions anymore than the player can.
But again, that's Generals, Kings, Mnoren, etc. stuff that's not everyone's
cup 'o tea.

>
> In your alternate Dale example, any number of completely different things
could reasonably happen following your premise. E.g.:
>
> * The Dwarves, Elves, and/or Goblins, and others, could and probably would
show up at other times to profit from the situation one way or another, if
not all at once to have a decisive battle.
> * Individuals and groups within Dale could get greedy and try to use
political or physical power to get as much of the gold as possible, and
either keep it there or go elsewhere with it.
> * It might turn out to have little or no effect on the local economy if it
was really parted out evenly. It might become a commodity that no one traded
in because everyone there had more than enough of it.
> * On the other hand, a culture of hording and paranoia might set in.
> * It might fracture the community into different groups with different
attitudes towards the gold.
>

Absolutely!
They almost all (cept for the gold heat death one) sound like nifty turns of
events leading to interesting adventure opps.
I use a Illuminati type system to describe Dales power structure (guilds,
council members, etc.) with an expanded New Follower Talent as part of the
mix when attempting to add a group to a power structure (often an adventure
in itself and a very good reason for a leader of a group to have an
insulating bureaucracy).
I use a Nomic type system to describe Dales Charter as well as represent
parliamentary procedure.
I use city building sim stuff for actual building and improvement in Dale.
I use a ratio system of Fame/Fortune/Happiness to describe attitudes
(alignments) of groups to help indicate where I see the groups focus of
activity in case I loose the group to a player in play.
Let's say that Dale is in a very fertile area and has an agriculture
requirement of 80% population to feed 100%.
I see these guys as being reasonably content and happy with life on the
lake, asking little more than a full belly and some good wine shared with
good friends at the end of a hard days work... call it 0/20/80 ergo barrels
of wine from Mirkwood...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqDksugN2mw
More stuff that you can take or leave of course.

> Really the GM is free to say how the community and individuals in his
world react to and develop economic ideas. Just like he gets to say how
people relate to colors - maybe red is considered noble, and yellow is
considered official, so the king's guard wears red and yellow stripes.
Economy is just about as arbitrary. Which is not to say it's not very
interesting; it's just not something that can be proven and argued about,
because it is more in the realm of imagination and culture than it is in the
realm of provable science and deterministic cause and effect.
>

Interesting example you pick.
Phoenicia built her trade empire based off a tiny little snail shell they
had access too that made a rich purple dye (neat story about the spots on
dogs tongues being related to this discovery) that became a de jure  colour
for royalty or a de facto status symbol in many places.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple
Are you trying to set me up?
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