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Re: Change (was: (TFT) Jobs table: ...)

Lots of ancient philosophers were into all sorts of stuff. And Newton was a die-hard Christian. So? Responsible scientific methodology is a very new concept, not even a hundred years old. 100+ years ago, 90% of so-called "scientists" were charlatans, and wildly irresponsible by todays standards. Today, there are still plenty of irresponsible scientists around, but they get called onto the carpet (how many more times is the "missing link" of evolution going to be found by a Chinese scientist...?)

Magic on Cidri cam be more comparable to whatever guild magicians belong to today (entertainers? no idea) than to being part of any methodical scientific revolution. Note, this also answers your question RE: Cidri technology. Finally, while the church as an organization repressive to "progress" gets kicked around a lot, the church as being the progressive motor is usually overlooked (not PC). check into it and report your findings back. If it wasn't for the church, you'd still be an illiterate barbarian humping sheep and roasting your enemies in cages when angry. And you'd be a "progressive" barbarian if you knew how to hump the sheep.

-----Original Message----- From: Margaret Tapley
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 7:14 PM
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: Re: Change (was: (TFT) Jobs table: ...)

On Sep 30, 2011, at 8:14 PM, raito@raito.com wrote:

Quoting gem6868 <gem6868@verizon.net>:
I've a problem with magic as science. The two have nothing to do with one another historically, philosophically and mythically. It's like trying to
explain "miracle" with "science" and vice-versa.

Again, I disagree. Very much of modern chemistry has its roots in alchemy, for example.
Neil Gilmore

Also, Pythagoras (yep, the guy with the triangles) was big into
mysticism. He wasn't unique in this regard, either. And remember how
much the Church hated Copernicus? His theory that the earth wasn't the
center of the universe directly threatened the Church's religious
principles. There just wasn't much of a dividing line between science
and philosophy (and therefore magic / occultism) in those days.

So... if you see a miracle, and you don't promptly start trying to
figure out what caused it, and how it might be reproduced, isn't that
kind of irresponsible? Think of the knowledge humanity could gain! :-)

Anyway, the point is that systems involving magic are basically a sub-
set of science fiction. Pretty much all science fiction posits
something; magic posits that if a person who knows what they're doing
says a Word of Power and points their finger, they can make something
explode, or turn invisible, or any of a number of other things. So, in
that way, magic is no different than FT-
JustPretendIt'sPossibleForAMinute-L travel. In settings with FTL, it's
science. Why can't magic be science on Cidri? (At least to the extent
that Cidri even has science - medieval society, see...)

By the way, does anyone else wonder why Cidri technology doesn't
develop any further than it has? We get the lack of firearms (sulfur's
hard to get), but what's keeping back the Industrial Revolution? No
coal? Wizards being paranoid? Some kind of Mnoren-imposed glass
ceiling? This question's probably been discussed somewhere in the
archives, but I'm too lazy to go look right now...

- Meg Tapley
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