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Re: (TFT) Pole weapons in Rick's campaign - Play styles.

I will concur that formations DO make a big difference.  A lone polear
m person has to have their act together to fight someone else on the ground
 (though there's no doubt in my military mind that they would do much bette
r against mounted opponents -- say, has anyone thought about that yet?). 

Still, I just don't think sword armed infantry can just "stroll through" th
eir ranks without getting some serious damage along the way.  (I might
 also note that pikemen were traditionally equipped with a short sword of t
heir own for those specific situations.)
Finally, crossbowman would have wiped out sword armed chappies too on the f
ield at St. Jakob -- when you're getting turned into a pincushion by long r
ange fire, it doesn't matter much WHAT kind of weapon you're lugging along!
Let's face it, the Italian wars period (Condottieri) was just not as intere
sting historically to a whole lot of us.  Partially because we don't g
et exposed to it much in school, and partially because it's just too confus
ing for most of us to spend the necessary time to sort all of it out. 
 So no one should feel bad about not being familiar with the issues of the 

      From: Edward kroeten <ekroeten@farmersagent.com>
 To: tft@brainiac.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 11:44 PM
 Subject: Re: (TFT) Pole weapons in Rick's campaign - Play styles.

Swiss pikemen were badass no doubt in st jakob (sp) in 1444 1500 of them at
tacked 30k of French troops routed the cavalry and killed 3000. Before the 
foolish French leader Louis XI had his crossbow men and infantry wipe them 
out. В Less than 70 pikemen survived.
What I am saying is that when not massed they were not as good. They were c
lose order troops.В 
Again not trying to start a fight or anything.В 
В He is right about one thing I don't like the Italian wars perio
d much so I В may discount it a little because of the quality of 
troops they were fighting.

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY SВ®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Jeffrey Vandine <jlv61560@yahoo.com> 
Date: 10/20/2015  10:32 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: tft@brainiac.com 
Subject: Re: (TFT) Pole weapons in Rick's campaign - Play styles. 

Mostly because I'm getting a lot of DNS errors thanks to Hughesnet's incred
ibly bad DNS server.В  As a result, I'm not able to do the resear
ch I w
anted to do to address some of his points.В  In short, it's not t
hat I'
m ignoring them, but that I'm unable to respond adequately to them at this
time, and rather than just declare him wrong, I want to find out if he real
ly is, and provide some information that he can examine in turn.
For example, I seem to recall that Swedish pikemen did very well against Ca
tholic forces during the early part of the thirty years war, but am unable
to give specific examples because of my inadequate internet connectivity.
В  Likewise, I recall several instances of Swiss Pikemen destroyi
ng ene
my armies lock, stock and barrel -- thus their reputation as the best infan
try in the world (and their continuing role as guards at the Vatican, albei
t with more modern weapons for non-ceremonial activities nowadays).В
ut, again, am unable to give specifics at this time.
Still, the fact that I've had to keep it generic (and therefore haven't add
ressed his comments in the detail they deserve, since I believe he deserves
 to have them so addressed just as he has responded in detail to me), I har
dly think qualifies as "acrimonious."В  Or even as "talking past 
each o
ther."В  Really, I'm just marking time until the darn DNS server 
back on line.

Of course, if you are the moderator, and feel this has reached a point of n
o return, I will cheerfully acquiesce to your decision and refrain from fur
ther comment.

В В В В В  From: Rick Smi
th <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca>
 To: tft@brainiac.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 11:05 PM
 Subject: Re: (TFT) Pole weapons in Rick's campaign - Play styles.
В В  
Hi Jeff,
В  Perhaps Acrimonious is the wrong word, but it is starting to f
eel li
you're talking past each other and using and reusing the same arguments.
For example, infantry doing well against Swiss pikes has been brought
up a couple times, but that point has not been acknowledged or addressed.

Warm regards, Rick

On 2015-10-20, at 9:22 PM, Jeffrey Vandine wrote:
> I actually haven't found the debate to be acrimonious at all. It seems to
> e that folks have put forward their thoughts, frequently providing exampl
> from history that have guided their personal positions, and that others h
> ve offered different insights.  No one has call
ed anyone else 
a name, 
> and everyone seems to be working to try and understand one another's posi
> ons.  
> Are you seeing something different here?  Becau
se I don't find
, for ex
> ample, my exchange with Ed regarding pole weapons historically speaking,
> be anything other than informative and enjoyable.�� He and I ma
y have 

> different view points, but we've made our points maturely and politely to
> ne another as far as I can tell.
> Ed, do you feel like we've been acrimonious towards one another?
> v/rJeff

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