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Re: (TFT) Double damage charge attacks with a shift ?!?

How can any game, constrained as it is by the hex map, specified turn lengt
h, and specific rules designed to cover most cases but which, by definition
, cannot cover the bleeding edge cases except through enormous complexity, 
EVER simulate reality?  Does Campaign for North Africa REALLY simulate
 the North African campaign?  Or is it merely an enormous exercise in 
providing insight into certain aspects of that campaign?  And could it
 ever really do anything more than the latter?

What we seek is a verisimilitude of reality, and TFT gets us close enough t
o it while remaining quick and fun.  If you want greater simulation, a
llow me to suggest GURPS -- it has most of what you noted below, and still 
uses an organized schema (hex maps and counters) to provide better visualiz
ation of actual geospatial relationships between combatants, which those sy
stems relying on pure imagination and/or miniatures in squares fails to ade
quately do (in my opinion).
In the end, it depends on how you like to play.  Continuing the wargam
e analogy, War in Europe and Europa both simulate the same thing, but which
 one do you prefer, taking into account complexity versus playability?�� Some people love the brutal attention to detail (at the expense of game
play) in, say, Advanced Squad Leader.  Others prefer to use nothing at
 all but a storyboard and their imaginations, while yet others think card p
lay, Fate Points, and the like are the be-all and end-all of gaming.  
There's really no right or wrong for you personally here.  The reason 
we're all on this list is that TFT hits our "sweet spot" in some way and is
 the most fun for us.  That should be enough, right?
However, having said that, we are allowed to debate how many angels can dan
ce on the head of a pin if we want, though, aren't we?  ;-)

      From: David O. Miller <davidomiller@verizon.net>
 To: tft@brainiac.com 
 Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 5:34 AM
 Subject: Re: (TFT) Double damage charge attacks with a shift ?!?
Again, modeling realism vs a game. I think the shift attack charge is a 
perfectly fine tactic. From a game design it's quite brilliant in 
fact. To me there's really not that much difference between that and 
getting a +2, as well as a charge, when you simply brace with the 
weapon. It's all wrapped up in the tactical use of the weapon inside the 
world that the game creates. 

The reason I love TFT so much is that the rules are so tightly written 
so that all aspects of the rules flow together to make a consistent, 
whole gaming experience. You can tinker with the rules, but it's a 
slippery slope. Go too far and your house rule will cascade throughout 
the system and you've really stopped playing TFT. 

So, for all you realism gamers on this list what do you consider to be a 
game system that models combat reality the closest? Chivalry and 
Sorcery? Or has the really realistic combat game never been written? We 
used to play a lot of RuneQuest and thought that the hit location system 
worked fairly well. Head shots, loosing the use of an arm, etc. It 
seemed fairly realistic. Of course the more "realism" that you put into 
a game the more complicated the game seems to become. And in my case I'm 
a story driven gamer, not a numbers pusher like some gamers I know. 
Perhaps that's why I'm attracted to TFT and not some of the other 
systems, D&D included.

Curious on everyone's thoughts.

David O. Miller
Miller Design/Illustration

2 Dean Court
East Northport, NY 11731
(631) 266-6875

On Oct 22, 2015, at 2:29 AM, Edward kroeten <ekroeten@farmersagent.com> 

> I also agree with Rick on this. 
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jeffrey Vandine <jlv61560@yahoo.com> 
> Date: 10/21/2015  9:04 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
> To: tft@brainiac.com 
> Subject: Re: (TFT) Double damage charge attacks with a shift ?!? 
> Concur totally with you on this one Rick!
>      From: Rick Smith <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca>
> To: tft@brainiac.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 1:05 PM
> Subject: (TFT) Double damage charge attacks with a shift ?!?
> Hi David,
> I didn't think of the case where you can shift and charge attack.
> That also is a change I didn't mention in my discussion.
> However, I NEVER liked the idea that an in combat shift could
> give you a double damage attack, so the change felt like an 
> improvement for me.
> Warm regards, Rick.
> On 2015-10-21, at 11:26 AM, David O. Miller wrote:
>> ...
>> This also brings up the shift one hex while engaged and do bonus pole 

>> weapon damage tactic. The three hex charge house ruling negates that 

>> tactic as well. In TFT I can lunge around an opponent to strike at 
>> another opponent to cause impaling damage.
>> However, if you go with the 3 hex charge in a straight row, or even 
>> some strange looping pattern, then it cascades throughout the game as 
>> whole and you've stopped the shift one hex charge as well.
> ...
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