Re: (TFT) TFT Release

[Michael Taylor <MichaelTaylor1@compuserve.com>]

Message text written by INTERNET:tft@brainiac.com

Well, in the interest making sure horse is dead...these are the reasons I
dont agree this a 'required' or that the 'half-point' methods makes for
better game play.

>>>>>>Holy cow, 
>>>>>>they are such awesome swordsmen not because of their 
>>>>>>equipment, but because of their skills!
>>>>>>  However, how could such super skilled fighters be
>>>>>>created in TFT?  The answer was they couldn't.  Any 40 or
>>>>>>45 attribute figure could get all the sword talents and fencing
>>>>>>etc. and then no further differentiation of great fighters was
>>>>>>possible.  

Hmmm...exactly how much differention do you nned after you're doing
double-damage on a roll of 7 or less? But okay, so you need more talents. I
agree completely, but this is not the same as CHEAPER talents. 

>>>>>>  Everyone seems to like new talents, and several
>>>>>>dozen have been suggested.  (How many are you up to now
>>>>>>Michael?)  

So many that I dont even bother to count them anymore.

>>>>>>If any significant number of new talents are added
>>>>>>this will place even more pressure on the character's demand
>>>>>>for memory.

But again, just because I want more talents, doesn't mean I think that each
indivudal character should have them all! I want more talents for DIFFERENT
types of characters, not so that the SAME character can have all the new
ones I add!

>>>>>>  I feel that the value for talents is much less per
>>>>>>memory point than what wizards get for their memory.
>>>>>>Contrast what a competent fighter gets for 2 memory:
>>>>>>Sword (no -4 DX penalty using a sword), or Mimic 
>>>>>>(can make animal noises and talk without an accent),
>>>>>>to what a competent wizard gets for 2 memory:  Lightning,
>>>>>>or Summon 4 hex Dragon.

I think this is an unfair comparison. Remember that the fighter who chooses
Sword for 2 memory points can also choose 2 other languages for 2 more
points. But the wizard who chooses Mimic can only choose Sword for 4 memory
points! Hardly a fair comparison. So the wizard is getting lots more
benefit at the penalty of being MUCH more specialized. Sword is not much,
but it certainly more valuable in day-to-day life than Mimic!

Lightning is a GREAT deal for 2 IQ points. But you can't really get a job
casting Lightning can you? For pure Area Combat then yes, it's unbalanced.
But in terms of role-playing Lightning is not nearly as valuable as
Horsemanship in the 'real' (fantasy) world. .

>>>>>>  Finally there are some character classes (like the 
>>>>>>standard Thief / Assassin of fantasy) which take up a huge
>>>>>>amount of memory.  How they are supposed to have all those
>>>>>>talents and then disguised themselves as even a half decent 
>>>>>>fighter I have no idea?

Well, in my opinion, there are no character classes like the 'standard'
Theif/Assassin in fantasy. These are purely D&D constructs. Grey Mouser is
perfectly possible in TFT for about 40-60 points. 

>>>>>>But the longer the campaign
>>>>>>goes on, the more you wish that your hero could pick up
>>>>>>SOMETHING new.

This I can't dispute. I've never seen players get THAT high without getting
caught up in politicial intrigues and other interests to where picking up
new Talents wasnt really on the list of things to do. 

>>>>>>  In summary, the single most common change
>>>>>>to the TFT rules I've seen, is various ways to give 
>>>>>>experienced figures more memory.  Thus my suggestion
>>>>>>that if there was a single change to TFT, it is that the
>>>>>>memory cost of most talents is reduced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Rick

I agree that an option for more memory is desired, but I dont agree that
lowering the cost of Talents is the way to go. Lowering the cost of the
existing talents GREATLY complicates building BEGINNING characters. 

Beginning characters are really just fine the way they are. The game is
plently fun and plenty balanced right up until 36 points or thereabouts.  
If it aint broken why fix it?

You said yourself that the problem is mostly occuring at high levels. So my
proposed solution (this is just for fun of course - and to clog people's
in-boxes) is to only 'cure' the problem at high levels. Let them trade a +1
IQ/+1 talent point gain with simply a +2 Talent point gain but no change to
their IQ Saving rolls. This is also mathematically easier to do than
dividing the cost of all talents by half.

This is something that would rarely be done at low levels. Would certainly
be cost-effective at high levels without changing the balance of the game
at low levels. 

The problem with reducing Sword and Fencing to half-point cost is that now
town guardsmen could afford to be expert fencers! This is not something I
think makes sense or want to see happen in TFT! But logically, if the costs
were all halved it SHOULD happen! 

However, if the higher level characters can increase their memory total
through expereince, it's a reasonable option that doesn't change the game
for all the other npcs of the world! 

It's like adding the Endurance stat to TFT because mice and elephants
exists. There's no reason to change the basic rules for a warrior/wizard
melee just becuase High-Level characters in the world need more
differentiation.

PS: Sorry for those who have heard this debate before, but I enjoy writing
with a intelligent conversationalist like Rick and I think it improves my
writing skills to summarize my ideas as succintly as possible!

Michael 





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