Re: (TFT) Re:Converting D&D

[Michael Taylor <MichaelTaylor1@compuserve.com>]

Message text written by INTERNET:tft@brainiac.com
> 
>>>>>>So, if I like Star Fleet Battles, BattleTech, TFT, D&D (all versions
but
>>>>>>2nd edition AD&D), Risus, Warhammer 40k, and completely free-form 
>>>>>>role-playing, what type of player am I?

Your an individual. The statement was directed toward the 'group' of
players of a particular game. Now, I'm willing to bet that as an
INDIVIDUAL,  you DO exhibit some characteristics of the GROUP of Star Fleet
Battles players, and Battle Tech players and TFT players. 

I know that I do. For example, "TFT players are old-timers" is probably
just as true as "D&D players are hack-and-slashers". Not true for all of
them, but probably true for most of them...

>>>>>>Add on RuneQuest, DragonQuest, Magic the Gathering, Traveller, Heavy
Gear,
>>>>>>Ars Magica, Artifact, Top Secret, and dozens of others, and what type
of
>>>>>>gamer am I?

Again, your an indivudal, no generalization makes statements about
indivudals, but odds are that you probably do 'work in computers, read alot
of science fiction and know the actors of Star Trek by their names', all
generalizations that are true for a group as a whole - without the ability
to predict any specific indivudal. 

>>>>>>Now, I haven't played Worlds of Synnibar, Senzar, or 
>>>>>>Spawn of Fachan, but only because I haven't picked them up.  

If you do find a copy of Spawn of Fachan I'd like one too!

>>>>>>I've also had
>>>>>>bad experiences gaming, but that was purely because of the people
involved,
>>>>>>not the game itself.

So you dont really prefer ANY game over any other? Then your also signed up
on every other message board for every other RPG....?

>>>>>>Of course, when I'm running a role-playing game, I'll freely ignore
the
>>>>>>results of the dice if they would interfere with the way the
direction the
>>>>>>game has decided to take.  If I'm playing a tactical simulation, the
dice
>>>>>>rule all.

I dont really split up combat into 'roleplaying' and 'tactical' situations
like that. I dont think they are mutally exclusive. You roleplay a tactical
situation when you make decisions that based on the dramatic integrity of
the story and the character - regardless of its tactical considerations.
But if your playing a military commander then it makes perfect sense to be
better tactically than other characters. 

I used to know this guy (you probably did to!) that was a perfectly good
role-player until he got into combat - and then he went into
'Commando-mode' where all he could think about was the most efficient way
to 'win' the combat, regardless of the type of character he was playing or
the reasons he got in the fight...the rules didn't really matter, his
ability to ignore his character during combat made the difference...

>>>>>>Yep.  Of course, sometimes my group likes to get a little tactical
gaming
>>>>>>in the mix - then, the rules (whatever set they are) and the rolls
come
>>>>>>into play.

Yeah, I feel the same way, sometimes pure no-dice playing is fun, but
sometimes its nice to break up the pace. Any action scene in a movie is
there for the same reason.

>>>>>>Yes, but by the TFT rules, you typically gain much more experience by
hacking
>>>>>>thru monsters than you do by avoiding them, unless the scenario is 
>>>>>>specifically written with enough alternatives.

This is true, but remember that combat is a MUCH higher risk than any other
action, so the reward SHOULD be greater. But I dont think this necessarily
influences combat so much as having a 'fighter-class' does. And no, I dont
count having a "hero" class the same way, because a Hero class in TFT only
affects the "cost" of spells, it doesn't suddenly make all magic wands
inert in your touch. 

>>>>>>Of course, you could simply stay home a month and make rolls on the
Jobs table
>>>>>>to see if you gain points (the Jobs table is one of the biggest
things I
>>>>>>dislike about TFT, in case you're wondering).

Yes I noticed that. And I let it go the first time, but since you brought
it up again, you deserve what you get! ;}

What part of "during the time he/she isn't being played." (ITL:25 - JOBS)
didn't you understand? If you are rolling on the Jobs table you aren't
"playing" at all. Your presumed to be in 'down-time' when no adventures are
going on, the jobs table is to help the GM and player achieve a realistic
result during those times when a long period of time passes without an
Adventure. 

Personally, this never really happens in my campaign until you retire.
Adventures jump out of the woodwork in the worlds I run --- you barely have
time heal! But its those long recuperations that the job tables are for --
to add ROLE-PLAYING background to those times your waiting for your
comrades to heal, or some young whipper-snapper has come to you for advice
because they hear you were a great adventurer once. So that it doesn't look
like characters are deep-frozen just because they exit play for a while...

You're not actually suppossed to call all of your gaming friends over to
'role-play' and then spend a couple of game-years rolling on the job table!


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you (and maybe I'm slamming you for something
someone else wrote!) and if so I apologize, but it seems like you think the
Jobs table is "part" of the role-playing of TFT and nothing about it has
ever given that indication. Steve Jackson and Aaron Allston (editor of
Space Gamer) has also said as much in response to various questions about
the Job table. 


>>>>>>Of course, I could say the same thing about TFT and why some people
won't
>>>>>>play it.

Could you? I suppose that due to the tactial nature of the TFT system, some
people could have completely overlooked its role-playing potential. 

But it seems that by examining the game mechanics -- which stand up pretty
well even nowadays and were light-years ahead of the game mechanics of its
time - its' pretty clear that players are going make a much wider variety
of interesting character than they are in D&D. 

Heck, even Melee fighters had much more interesting 'personalities' than
D&D fighters because suddenly you could pick different weapons for
different reasons and tactical considerations! Something you couldn't do in
the D&D back then....

Besides....being out of print for a long time probably has a little more to
do with why people dont play TFT than anything else!

Michael 
=====
Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
"unsubscribe tft"