Re: (TFT) Re:Converting D&D

["Anthony Merlock" <amerlock@execpc.com>]

Michael wrote:
> Star Fleet Battles anyone?

Sure!  Your place or mine?  That, Starfire, BattleTech, Heavy Gear, and a
bunch of others have places of honor on my gaming shelves, along with TFT,
Traveller and D&D (four versions, and once I get some 'free cash', I'm gonna
get copies of Chainmail and OD&D, just to completely prove that I'm a pure
gamer geek).

> A very specific type of player likes that game.
> Not good, not bad, but the game *does* determine the type of player that's
> going to find it fun....

So, if I like Star Fleet Battles, BattleTech, TFT, D&D (all versions but
2nd edition AD&D), Risus, Warhammer 40k, and completely free-form 
role-playing, what type of player am I?

Add on RuneQuest, DragonQuest, Magic the Gathering, Traveller, Heavy Gear,
Ars Magica, Artifact, Top Secret, and dozens of others, and what type of
gamer am I?

In fact, I don't think there's been any RPG or tactical game I've played that
I haven't enjoyed.  Now, I haven't played Worlds of Synnibar, Senzar, or 
Spawn of Fachan, but only because I haven't picked them up.  I've also had
bad experiences gaming, but that was purely because of the people involved,
not the game itself.

Well, it's probably because I look at them as games, and don't take gaming
too seriously.

> 
> >>>>>>But when it comes to combat, its easier to fudge rolls in D&D than in
> TFT.
> 
> I can't go along with this because it seems to presume that you can't
> roleplaying combat unless you 'fudge'. I dont agree with that. Have I
> misunderstood? 

This wasn't addressed to me, but probably not.  Most cases of dice 'fudging'
occur because either the GM made the encounter more difficult than was 
expected, and the GM wants to cut the players some slack, or the players are
having a 'bad day', and the GM wants to cut them some slack.

Of course, when I'm running a role-playing game, I'll freely ignore the
results of the dice if they would interfere with the way the direction the
game has decided to take.  If I'm playing a tactical simulation, the dice
rule all.

> 
> Another form of support for my argument is something Brett had stated to me
> about MAR Barker's personal campaign in Empire of the Petal Throne.  Brent
> (paraphrasing) stated that Barker is more into the story than the rolls. 
> He
> tells the story about his world and how the characters relate to it than
> rolling dice.  No rules, few rolls, just role.

Yep.  Of course, sometimes my group likes to get a little tactical gaming
in the mix - then, the rules (whatever set they are) and the rolls come
into play.

> 
> >>>>>>Make a good roll get experience.  As far as other experience, like
> good role-playing, that's subjective in both TFT and D&D.  I see no
> >>>>>>difference.  
> 
> I do actually. Knowing that you can make just as much EP by making ANY
> other roll means that you dont have to get into combat if you dont want to.
> In fact, know you can use your imagination to think of ANY other way to
> acccomplish your goals - and if they work, you are rewarded for using your
> imagination to make ANY roll you need to. I think that's all the difference
> in the world.. 
> 
> >>>>>>I think the experience system in Warhammer FRPG is much better
> >>>>>>because the experience is based on a rubric.  Get past monster 10
> exp., Find
> >>>>>>magic item 20 experience points, Kill the Liche 100 exp., and on and
> on.
> 
> I like WFRP's experience system okay - its really nice when a module comes
> pre-written with those goals and amounts - that's very good, *but* it seems
> to be a little arbitrary and a little inconsistent to me. 
> 
> The reward for rolls is very simple and very flexible. Try anything "for
> good use" and if it works - you get rewarded. There's a WORLD of room for
> your imagination there that's not really AS flexible as "Get Past Monster",
> "Find Magic Item". What if you find another way? You dont find the magic
> item but you come up with a clever solution that doesnt need it? Under WFPR
> you dont get the ep, under TFT you do. 

Yes, but by the TFT rules, you typically gain much more experience by hacking
thru monsters than you do by avoiding them, unless the scenario is 
specifically written with enough alternatives.

Of course, you could simply stay home a month and make rolls on the Jobs table
to see if you gain points (the Jobs table is one of the biggest things I
dislike about TFT, in case you're wondering).

> 
> (I'm not being literally that inflexible, but making the point that however
> subtly, I think TFT's system allows a little more creativity)
> 
> I've never claimed that good players and good GMs dont make a huge
> difference with ANY system -- only that the system general *starts* the
> players and GMs on a certain road that they will tend to stay on -- or they
> will probably go to another game. 
> 
> That's why most of us stopped playing D&D in the first place!

Of course, I could say the same thing about TFT and why some people won't
play it.

Tony Merlock
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