(TFT) Re:Converting D&D

[Michael Taylor <MichaelTaylor1@compuserve.com>]

Message text written by INTERNET:tft@brainiac.com
>
>>>>>>Sorry, Michael, I have to disagree with you here.  I believe the
players
>>>>>>define the game.  If the players don't like the rules you don't play.
 The
>>>>>>players set the pace of the game not the rules.  

Players are going to play games whos rules work the way they want to play.
Very seldom are players who want fast-paced games going to play Space Opera
or Champions or GURPS. Players who like to build gadgets and finese every
point of their characters are probably not going to like TFT. Players
gravitate toward rules that reflect the way they want to play. 

So in theory the 'players define the game' but in reality, players *rarely*
change the basic nature and flow the rule system encourages by that much.
I've actually known GURPS GM's who stopped giving points for Disadvantages
and threw out most of the combat rules, but these are exceptions. Most of
the time, the players simply dont play games that arent fun to them!
Meaning that the way the rules are constructed largely determine the type
of player that wants to play them. 

Star Fleet Battles anyone? A very specific type of player likes that game.
Not good, not bad, but the game *does* determine the type of player that's
going to find it fun....

>>>>>>But when it comes to combat, its easier to fudge rolls in D&D than in
TFT.

I can't go along with this because it seems to presume that you can't
roleplaying combat unless you 'fudge'. I dont agree with that. Have I
misunderstood? 

Another form of support for my argument is something Brett had stated to me
about MAR Barker's personal campaign in Empire of the Petal Throne.  Brent
(paraphrasing) stated that Barker is more into the story than the rolls. 
He
tells the story about his world and how the characters relate to it than
rolling dice.  No rules, few rolls, just role.

>>>>>>Make a good roll get experience.  As far as other experience, like
good role-playing, that's subjective in both TFT and D&D.  I see no
>>>>>>difference.  

I do actually. Knowing that you can make just as much EP by making ANY
other roll means that you dont have to get into combat if you dont want to.
In fact, know you can use your imagination to think of ANY other way to
acccomplish your goals - and if they work, you are rewarded for using your
imagination to make ANY roll you need to. I think that's all the difference
in the world.. 

>>>>>>I think the experience system in Warhammer FRPG is much better
>>>>>>because the experience is based on a rubric.  Get past monster 10
exp., Find
>>>>>>magic item 20 experience points, Kill the Liche 100 exp., and on and
on.

I like WFRP's experience system okay - its really nice when a module comes
pre-written with those goals and amounts - that's very good, *but* it seems
to be a little arbitrary and a little inconsistent to me. 

The reward for rolls is very simple and very flexible. Try anything "for
good use" and if it works - you get rewarded. There's a WORLD of room for
your imagination there that's not really AS flexible as "Get Past Monster",
"Find Magic Item". What if you find another way? You dont find the magic
item but you come up with a clever solution that doesnt need it? Under WFPR
you dont get the ep, under TFT you do. 

(I'm not being literally that inflexible, but making the point that however
subtly, I think TFT's system allows a little more creativity)

I've never claimed that good players and good GMs dont make a huge
difference with ANY system -- only that the system general *starts* the
players and GMs on a certain road that they will tend to stay on -- or they
will probably go to another game. 

That's why most of us stopped playing D&D in the first place!

Michael 
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