RE: (TFT) Roleplaying talents --> Michael's suggestion: roleplay your armourer

["rsmith" <rsmith@lightspeed.ca>]

Message text written by INTERNET:tft@brainiac.com
>>>>>By  Michael's reasoning, EVERY one of Paul's characters would
>>>>>By Michael's reasoning he would never get the full advantage of
Diplomacy, New

>Hold it! Who is this Michael who thinks this? How did my reasoning go from
>"Players are given bonuses according to how well they roleplay" to "Players
>cannot use any talent they do not personally possess?" This word "reason" -
>I do not think it means what you think it means!

	If one player never (or rarely) gets
bonuses, would you not say that they are not
getting the full advantage of the talent?

	I guess in the long term it would not
be a problem.  If a player is consistently
being penalized (excuse me, not rewarded) for
roleplaying not up to the GM's standards,
then it is likely that that player will quit,
drift away and make room for someone better.


>>>>>>  What I did was I prompted the player, when ever he was going to
make a
>>>>>>  After a couple real years of hints and help, he could roleplay
>>>>>>  a military type pretty well.

>This actually seems like bullying to me. Or at least "coercian". You dont
>get to play the kind of commander *you* want to play. You get to play *my
>version* of what a commander should be like.

	I think you should ask Torry if he felt
that I bullied him for 3+ years.  He asked for
help roleplaying a military leader and I gave
it to him.  He played the commander he wanted
to play.  When I gave him a heads up that I
thought he was making a mistake and why, he was
free to take the advice or not as he wished.

>>>>>>  However Michael specifically said you shouldn't
>>>>>>  prompt players.  (His example was about facing and
>>>>>>  maneuver's even tho the player's character was a
>>>>>>  competent fighter.)

>No, in general, I dont think you should. You are actually rewarding the
>player not for roleplaying - but for parrotting the behavior that you think
>is appropriate.

	I think you are cutting a fine distinction
here. I am "bullying" my player for helping him be
a better military commander.  (Of course the sin
is that I am suggesting a better commander the way
_I_ think it should be. )

	However, you are NOT bullying your players
when you 'force' them to roleplay the way you like.
'Tis all in good fun you see!

	I presume that your players put up with you
forcing them to roleplay because they have bought
into the 'rules' of your campaign.  The fact that
you are GMing regular players for many years
suggests that those players are enjoying themselves.

	Perhaps you might give me the benefit of a
doubt?  I've been GMing for more than 20 years (with
a few interruptions) and I would think that the fact
that I am in demand as a GM would indicate that very
few of my players think that I "bully" them.  Ditto
for forcing them to become lickspittles by making
them to always, quote: "parrot the behavior I
think is appropriate" end quote.



>I think the GM should be more 'impartial' than that. He should reward the
>players for their effort - for TRYING to be entertaining - not for playing
>*exactly* the way the GM thinks they should behave.

	Just noting a subtle shift in argument here.
The paragraph above makes it sound like you reward
players for TRYING.  Gosh I wish my GM would reward
me for trying, (sigh).

	It sure sounds like, from your arguments, that
I PUNISH players for doing things wrong.  After all
you used the terms "bully", "coercian", "parrotting
behaviors", etc.  Why... Rick's campaign sure must
suck!


	Just for argument, what happened in your
campaign when you got a player who didn't role
play the way you want?  Someone who cracked elf
jokes when the other players were into high
fantasy, or otherwise disrupted the game with
their play.  Did you reward that person for
TRYING to roleplay the way they liked, or did
you have a little talk & explain how the world
works?  Perhaps after a few weeks or months that
person found other things to do?  Maybe that
player toned down the elf jokes?  Maybe everyone
put on tu-tu's and did Life of Brian?


	I probably should not cast aspersions at
your game.  After all, how would I know what goes
on at your gaming table?

	Rick
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