Re: (TFT) Too simple / not as simple or elegant... Survey

["Dan Tulloh" <dwtulloh@zianet.com>]

Charles writes:

> Canonically speaking, a dragon may make only *one* claw attack - 
> see ITL.  

Yes, but it doesn't say how *many* claw 'swipes' were used in the 
attack.  For example, look at bears.  Your average bear does 2+2
in regular combat, but you don't know how many claw swipes were
actually attempted.  ( Same thing for humans btw, you hit and do
damage with your sword, but you don't know how many thrusts or 
cuts were actually made -- its all wrapped up into a single hit and
damage roll. )

So, just because a dragon gets one claw attack, that doesnt mean
that only one claw swipe was attempted.  ( Canon *does* say that 
a claw attack can only be carried out against a figure in the dragon's 
front hexes. Perhaps it takes too long for a dragon to shift its weight
enough to make an attack with the back claws? )  
 
> That said your point is somewhat valid - I don't think TFT does 
> dragons too well - and what you say makes sense, though I would 
> insist on DX penalties for more than one claw attack, in addition 
> to any penalties for "sweeps".

I made a valid point?  Whoo-hoo!!   :)

> Keep in mind that (assuming he is not flying) he is *standing* on 
> his legs, so the situation is somewhat different from a bipedal
> humanoid wielding a great sword. 

granted.

> Also note that a dragon's claw probably would not count as an
> edged weapon (but I am aware of your stand on this, as 
> expressed below)
 
> > TFT makes no such distinction for multi-hex creatures - take a
> > giant and his large number of front hexes.  Sure, your typical
> > TFT giant performing a sweeping blow would be almost comical
> > as the DX adjustment makes it practically impossible for him to
> > hit a target.  But there's nothing that says that he CANT do it.
> 
> Ah, but give that giant some magical DX aids from magic weapons, 
> etc.... and he becomes the PC Ginzu-matic (TM)
> 
> > > So a 14 hex dragon cannot "sweep" his entire side... I have to
> > > concede that I had not considered the possibility of multihex
> > > creatures, especially ones of great ST.
> >
> > Again, the length of a combat round is a consideration.  I suppose
> > it might be possible for a dragon to sweep along its entire side
> > using a front leg and then a back one.
> 
> See above on that - the round is not *that* long...
> 
> 
> > > Part of my thought in having the "progressive" to hit penalty was
> > > to reflect hitting multiple creatures and losing some momentum.
> > > In the case of a giant with some sort of giant sized sword, I could
> > > visualise something more along the lines of Sauron in the opening
> > > sequences of Fellowship of the Ring. I'll have to think on this some
> > > more.
> >
> > This was exactly my point - momentum reduction.  Considering all
> > attacks a graze simply doesn't cut it for me.  And what about blunt
> > weapons, like a club or a hammer?  TFT says that in order to make
> > a sweeping blow, the attacker must be using a two-handed cutting
> > weapon.  But I dont think that this tracks either.  A figure with a two
> > handed club or hammer should be allowed to make a sweeping
> > blow, but stop as soon as someone is hit.  This would give him an
> > opportunity to attack everyone in his front hexes, albeit at a DX
> > minus.
> 
> 
> Your point is perfectly valid. I would probably stick with cutting 
> weapons only just to keep this can of worms from opening too 
> much more....

aww, come on!   :)

> A suggestion: one could say that non-cutting weapons used for 
> this purpose incur an additional -2 DX penalty on top of the 
> existing one (whether canonical or my variant), while creatures 
> with a ST of say 30+ get a +2 DX bonus - thus, a giant with a club 
> or a dragon using his claws will most likely "wash", but a giant 
> with a big sword.... now that's just viscious...

mmm ... I'll havta think about that

Dan
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