Re: (TFT) Penetration of armor by Longbows --> Rick has a study!

["Craig W. Barber" <craigwbar@comcast.net>]

So it seems longbow damage had been investigated and found wanting!  I'd never
heard that, it's good info!

I kinda like your idea of converting damage from say 1+2 to something like 3-3
or 3-5.  That fits in well with the TFT ethos of "either live fast and die
quick or else grow a brain."

Thanks for both items Rick!

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rick Smith
  To: tft@brainiac.com
  Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:25 PM
  Subject: (TFT) Penetration of armor by Longbows --> Rick has a study!


  On Fri, 2006-09-22 at 19:40, Craig W. Barber wrote:
  > Longbow versus armor or not?:  I'm surprised there are no contemporary
  > accounts!  ...

    My wife is a VIP in the SCA and was running a
  Arts and Science competition.  One paper (over 50
  pages) was talking about firing a bow into various
  types of armor and seeing if the arrow could
  penetrate.

    It is called:  "English Longbow Testing against
  various armor circa 1400" by Matheus Bane (c)
  January 2006.

    It is an impressive scholarly work with physical
  experiments and over 18 references.

    The arrows went thru anything less than full plate
  tho several types of armor slowed the arrows
  significantly.

    He found that full plate stopped most arrows.  Those
  with armor piercing points (needle bodkins) could
  achieve partial penetration against even heavy plate
  armor. (Call it a minor wound but not major damage.)
  Of course if the arrow struck a joint or an area
  thinner than the breast plate it would penetrate.
  Also arrows slow down as they travel and this would
  further reduce their impact some.

    After the 16 hundreds improvements in armor would
  make Longbows less useful.


    I have suggested in earlier posts that penetrating
  type weapons do damage like Xd-Y, where as cutting
  weapons do damage like Xd+Y.  If X is 2 or more,
  this means that the damage of penetrating weapons
  is highly variable.

    So if we make a long bow a 2d-3 weapon and say
  that full plate stops 7 (I think 5 is too low) then
  the average damage of a long bow arrow is 4 and the
  range of damage would be 0 to 9.  This would allow
  Longbows to occasionally damage those in full
  plate but all most all shots would bounce off.
  Also being at some risk is more interesting than
  being at no risk from a strictly game design
  position.

    However, people with plate and a large shield (or
  Veteran talent or magical armor) could basically
  ignore longbows.


    But this is trying to punch thru the breast plate.
  If we take into account that the arrow might hit
  a less well armored place, then a long bow damage
  of 3d-5 (average damage 5 with a range from 0 to
  13 with most damage falling in the range of 1 to
  10) would do the job.

    This would make the longbow scary dangerous to
  have it shoot at you even if you are in plate with
  shield.  Assume you can stop 9 hits....  Most of
  the time it bounces off your armor.  You can ALMOST
  laugh at it.  However on rare occasions it goes
  thru your face plate or sinks into your groin for
  a serious wound.

    People who like to shoot bows may become
  frustrated by the damage variance.  (I've been
  experimenting with such damages in my campaign
  and some players yearn for the days when a longbow
  always did at least 3 points of damage...)


    Anyways, I think that Xd-Y for penetrating
  weapons is the way to go for anyone who cares
  enough to modify the basic system.  It is very
  simple, fast and gives me the results I like.

    Warm regards, Rick Smith.
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