RE: (TFT) TFT tactics point

["George Dew" <gdew@ResponseNetworking.com>]

Kirk and I agree on one thing--Try out LEGENDS OF THE ANCIENT WORLD!!!

However, play it as a separate game--it is not TFT nor is it a one-off.
READ THE RULES without incorporating any TFTish assumptions, you'll avoid
another pitfall from the previous post.

That post argues that in Legends, you can unfairly "gang-up" on a character.
If you READ the Legends rules, then you'll find just the opposite is true.

In TFT, six DX12 characters attacking a single DX11 character all get to hit
him before he even gets to strike back.  In Legends, after the first
character attacks him, the DX11 character gets to counterattack!  This is
just the opposite of what was stipulated.

I'm not here to promote Legends; I think Kirk is doing a good enough job of
that.  I just don't want people to hear a one-sided misrepresentation of
what "Legends of the Ancient World" is all about:

- Legends is NOT TFT.  Don't try to interpret it as a substitute.

- Legends is a fast-playing INTRO designed to bring beginners into the
hobby.  Heck, it's only seven pages long including magic!  Even Melee
without magic was 21 pages long.  Add Wizard, and now you're talking 50
pages in all!!  And that's not even the "Advanced" Melee/Wizard/ITL.

- Nobody ever told you that you HAVE to play Legends.

- Legends is about the adventures, not the rules--try a DCG adventures with
the TFT rules, and you'll be surprised how compatible they are.

Another thing, the GM's job is NOT to try and kill off characters.  His job
is to ensure that his players have as much fun as possible, so they'll come
back for more.

Finally, this whole thread should not be about Legends, it should be about
TFT!!  I don't see why Kirk has to bash Legends in order to talk about TFT;
they're completely different concepts.

Regarding TFT, I might consider implementing a website where you could get
all the original Melee, Wizard, TFT, and all the Microquests (hard copy;
digest format; quality similar to our DCG adventures).  However, I honestly
believe that it's only fair to respect the original work AND the original
copyright holder.  Therefore, if ANYONE has any objection, I would not do
it.

Do I hear any comments on this?

If I do it, anyone who gets copies will have to reimburse COGS (about
$3/each) AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, agree to pay the full purchase price
(whatever that may end up being) to the rightful copyright holder if s/he
ever again comes to light.  They would also have to indemnify me against any
future lawsuits stemming from the copyrighted materials.

With respect to creating a TFT2, personally, I question whether it does
justice to the original TFT.  Everybody agrees on the original TFT, after
all, it's written in ink.  When people start adding their own house rules,
it's not really TFT any longer.  I guess to me, TFT is sacred.

A project to rewrite TFT and add house rules would be a lot of fun.
However, it should not be called "The Fantasy Trip," because it isn't.












-----Original Message-----
From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com]On Behalf Of
Kirk Woller
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 16:25
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: (TFT) TFT tactics point


Just a brief clarification on the differences between TFT and Legends.  It
is not a matter of being realistic, it is a matter of play balance and flow.
The TFT combat procedure is elegant and works very well, with only the few
little points people have about a singular spell or some other small
preference.  Because of the non-simultaneous aspect of a representation of
combat, "zones of control" were developed to restrict unrealistic sequential
style movement, not just in TFT but in other "wargames" as well, to good
general effect.  The ZOCs can be rigid or soft, but they are usually there
in a I go/you go type turn for good reason.  Efforts to compensate for this,
like GURPS defensive rolls, etc. don't work well and aren't enjoyable to
play, IMO and other gamers' opinions, as well.

The current Legends rules allow ganging up on one character at a time which
I have gamed out with several test sessions with other experienced players
and result in eliminating one or more characters almost assuredly in a
combat.  The lack of engagement and a few other details of the combat (such
as the skills adds) change the fundamental workings of the TFT tactical
system and allow a competent GM to destroy a party in two encounters or less
almost every time.  Try it out for yourselves, playing the Legends rules as
they are written being sure not to incorporate any assumptions of TFTish
aspects such as engagements, etc.  with something you have experience with,
such as Death Test.  If you have any questions about how to do this write me
and I can help with the details if you don't discover them on your own.

I think on a rewrite we would really want to stick with what has worked and
effectively been playtested over 30 years.  Any changes I think would need
to be suggestions and indicated as such in the text so players could stick
with the TFT rules that drew them in in the first place.  Moving away from
the current tactical system usually gives rise to a GURPish style combat
system.  After analyzing the two systems it really dawned on me that there
may only be these two fundamental ways to handle this level of combat, GURPS
style and TFT style.  At the time GURPS was under development SJ seemed to
make me think he thought that in the end it would be a better game, but I am
thinking he didn't have much choice since he couldn't use the TFT style
tactical combat that he had left with HT, either out of pride or for legal
reasons.  I much prefer and enjoy the TFT style and I assume others on this
list do, too.  But to each his own, but I certainly would like to play
anyone with the Legends rules as the GM in any of the original microquests
and see how you fare! :-)

-Kirk
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