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Re: (TFT) week 2

One of the players decided to take on the DM role and put on another D&D campaign. A number of the guys spent a significant amount of time creating their characters for the adventure. We had recently discussed trying do something with the D&D combat system because it was taking so long to get through battles. My friend, the guest DM, suggested that we use TFT for combat while using D&D for the rest of the game. Interesting idea. The plan was not disclosed to the players until game day (1st mistake).
Well, I went about converting their D&D characters, NPC's and monsters to TFT. When I did this in the old D&D/AD&D days (what, 1st edition or before?), there wasn't much of a problem doing the conversions. Now I was dealing with 2.5 or 3.5 or something and D&D had changed a lot. The character classes were very involved and even beginning characters had extraordinary skills/abilities/traits whether they were based on race or class or something else. I was converting 3rd level guys but I found it near impossible to replicate all of their traits, skills and abilities without them being practically TFT demi-gods. One guy alone would have required an additional 23 IQ points to represent his D&D skills in TFT!! I really fudged a lot and only focussed on the martial skills/abilities/traits since that is what we were using TFT for, but this required me to make further modifications to be fair to all the players. On top of this, D&D "attributes" aren't used the same way as TFT "attributes" so there was a disconnect between their attributes because I tried to replicate abilities, skills and traits.
As an introduction, I used my D&D character as a mentor and put them through Death Test 2. The game went fine and they admitted that the combat was short and brutish. No character died. Several problems arose. The players expected to use their D&D characters for the combat. They had a lot of expectations about things that were not fufilled in TFT- a paradigm shift was needed! Oddly, many of the traits I did successfully convert turned out to be traits/abilities in which they were not interested in- some D&D fluff, I guess. I thought I did a halfway decent job trying to capture the "flavor" of the characters but it went bad.
Some of the guys appreciated TFT's qualities and said that they might...I say MIGHT be available for a TFT game although I think they were lying. Their problem was the hybrid approach; they felt that they would have created different characters if they knew they were playing TFT even if only for combat. Others were flatly against TFT. I was sympathetic because I remember when I was first introduced to TFT. I thought, "what a lame game". After a couple of games, I got it.
My advice would be to just introduce the guys to arena combat using Melee/Adv Melee and then to Wizard/Adv Wizard before attempting any role-playing. Once they feel they know what can and cannot be done, then go for a short role-playing session. Don't try to surprise them! 

Look forward to your report,
Aidan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Rangel" <ray.rangel@cox.net> 
To: <tft@brainiac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:57 PM
Subject: RE: (TFT) week 2
One of the things I noticed about D&D is that it is such a hassle to gen up 
new characters nobody gets killed. Who is going to stop a game for half an
hour while the unlucky player is rolling up a new char. To put things in
perspective, the D&D character sheet is two pages of blanks that are so
tightly packed no human can write in them. Even with that dense sheet, a
player must have a notepad handy for all the info that won't fit. On the
other hand, my TFT characters are on 3x5 index cards. I think that speaks
volumes.

I think I want to toss TFT out for my gaming group too. Fortunately, they
like to try different things. They play D&D, Hero, and WoD sp they might
think that TFT is too simple. On the other-hand, killing off a PC would get 
their attention. Perhaps you can relate your attempt to us so that I don't
commit the same errors.


Ray Rangel
ray.rangel@cox.net
http://xraysvision.blogspot.com/


-----Original Message-----
From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On Behalf
Of Todd Roseberry
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:11 PM
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: Re: (TFT) week 2

Ray,

I was "converted" from D&D to TFT about 25 years ago or so. I had been
out
of gaming for years but got back into when a group of friends invited
me to
play D&D. I was stunned by the complexity. I always enjoyed playing
wizards
in TFT but found that running a D&D wizard gave me a headache. I'm not
trying to bash D&D but it's the way it hit me. Love TFT wizards; hate
D&D
wizards.

I always loved playing a wizard because my GM usually ran a game with
only a
couple of players. This allowed things to get "personal". When my
wizard
went up against the bad guy wizard, it was a real fight between GM and
me.
It was great fun. It was always a challenge to judge just when to
commit
your last bit of ST in wizard combat.

I tried introducing my friends to TFT but it went over like lead
balloon.
Part of it was my fault in not preparing them properly for it. I might
try
it again.

Because of the way that we played TFT, we never got real fond of our
characters. Characters didn't die every time we played but death was
expected to some degree due to the nature of the adventures and the
uncertainty of TFT combat. A character would get whacked and it would
take a
few minutes to draw up another one and work him into the story. In the
D&D
group, the guys were much more invested in their characters. The
characters
were very well developed in stats, abilities, etc... So much work is
put
into their characters, I can see why there is an emotional investment.
I'd
certainly rather lose a TFT character to a D&D character.

Oh well, just my .02.

Aidan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Rangel" <ray.rangel@cox.net>
To: <tft@brainiac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: (TFT) week 2


> Forgive me if I speak out of turn. I'm quite new to TFT but not so
new to
> RPGs and gaming in general (30+ years). I joined this list to learn
from
> others about the TFT system.
>
> Let me share with you the reason that I chose to pursue TFT. I have
been
> playing a lot of D&D over the past few years and more recently, WFRP.
What
> I've found is that I really have come to appreciate simple game
systems
> that
> do not require calculators, computers, Mentats, and piles and piles
of
> rule
> books to play. The character sheet that I use for TFT fits on a 3x5
card.
> I
> want to play a game, not the rules. I have become committed to this
> concept.
> So much so that a few weeks ago I invited some gaming friends over
and
> gave
> them all of my D&D 3.5 collection. It was a stack of books that was
about
> four and half foot tall. By way of comparison Advanced Melee,
Advanced
> Wizard, and In the Labyrinth isn't even an inch.
>
> You can, I think, understand my concern when people start talking
about
> rules for joules. Did I leap from the frying pan into the fire? I
came
> into
> the TFT fold to escape the RFES (Rule For Everything Syndrome) that
> plagues
> other systems. I'm seeking sublime simplicity. Who cares how far a
> Claymore
> can penetrate ballistic gel.my Conan like character slices and dices
> without
> regard for the unscientific (albeit, highly entertaining) antics of
TV
> personalities on Mythbusters.
>
> When I GM and an event isn't covered by the rules occurs, I'll make
it up
> as
> I go along. I don't really need to know how many joules are
represented by
> one ST. All I need is general idea, or feel, for what's reasonable in
> order
> to make a judgment which is consistent with the heroic PCs, NPCs,
monsters
> and the game as a whole. As a player, that's what I expect the GM to
do.
> After all, how "real" can a game be that includes dragons, goblins,
and
> elves?
>
> So now we come to the meandering thoughts of Jay. Jay, I mean no
offense,
> but I just don't understand the value of much of what you have
posted.
> Cutting through the "stream of consciousness".err.style of your posts
and
> looking at the "data" that you present, it means little to me as an
RPG GM
> or player. After reading through the various books and adventures, I
have
> to
> say that there is little attempt to be true to real world physics.
There
> is
> approximation, not precision, and then only to the extent required to
> allow
> a fantasy game player to suspend disbelief.
>
> The bottom line is that I'm afraid I have to agree with Rick.
Furthermore,
> your statement that you use the list as an on-line notepad
demonstrates a
> disregard for others. My impression was that the purpose of this list
is
> to
> share and communicate with others about TFT, not that it is to be
used as
> a
> personal scratch pad.
>
> I'm certain that you have valuable contributions to make. Please
organize
> your thoughts and ideas before posting them. Not doing so and making
> everyone else do it for you, is inconsiderate in the extreme and
doesn't
> communicate them well, if at all, to other readers. Please stop
telling us
> that you aren't a writer. The moment you hit the "Send" button, you
are a
> writer regardless of your disclaimer. You cannot claim no
responsibility
> to
> readers while you writing a message which you fully expect others to
read.
>
> So, all that being said, would someone like to carry on a
conversation
> about
> TFT? I'm curious to see what characters others have played, what
their
> starting characteristics were and why. I'd like some of the
experienced
> players to share nuggets of wisdom about playing solos adventures.
How
> 'bout, since I'm new to the game, where the pitfalls and gaps are in
the
> rules. Does anyone have a home brewed adventure or campaign they
would
> like
> to share?
>
> Ray Rangel
> ray.rangel@cox.net
> http://xraysvision.blogspot.com/
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On
Behalf
>> Of Jay Carlisle
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:30 PM
>> To: tft@brainiac.com
>> Subject: (TFT) week 2
>>
>> Progress report
>> (note Today is 9th making this report 1 day late)
>>
>> >
>> > Schedule for week 1, Jan '08
>> >
>> > Scan Images from "Places of Worship, 150 years of Latter-day Saint
>> > architecture".
>>
>> This did not get accomplished.
>> In my defence, I had more trouble finding an Image converter than I
>> anticipated so I purchased another cheep scanner (3 in 1 that won't
>> print, Lexmark) and low and behold! It'll do decent OCR so Wizard is
>> now scaned. This is a significant bonus as I figured to be typeing
on
>> this for ?, weeks?
>>
>> >
>> > Brush up at least one chart, table, etc. in Plain Text TFT.
>> >
>>
>> I did the Job Table
>> Also the above work on Wizard.
>>
>> > Edit at least one Wiki page.
>>
>> Well...., yes.
>> I did tidy up some of my thoughts on IQ but,...
>> I need to do a little better this week.
>>
>> > Prepare presentation post "Laborer".
>>
>> Well it appears I'm a slick little so and so.
>> I HAVE prepared Labor.
>> I'm on my THIRD preperation now.
>> LOL
>> After reading some of the feedback, I went back and took a long look
at
>> what I'd written and decided that explaining ME in essay form is no
>> better than explaining ME of the top of my head.
>> So I'm pulling my campagne as an example and trying for a focus on
>> principals w/o long, rambeling discriptions.
>> Again, I'm not a writer so this is difacult and frustrating for me.
>> Sorry if/when I go a bit cookoo.
>>
>> > Prepare speculative post "Intelligence".
>>
>> Oh bloody yes.
>> I got THAT done.
>> I recieved an english lesson in return instead of much thought on
IQ,
>> but any feedback offered honestly deserves to be answered with
honest
>> consideration.
>>
>>
>> > Start pulling together a Bibliography of reference material.
>>
>> This suprises me.
>> I'd forgotten this one.
>> Yet it seems I didn't because I've actually gotten quite a bit done
on
>> this.
>> I've even pulled a page on a couple of styles of reference.
>> I think I'll write it up in Esperanto...
>>
>> > Look again, for the umpteenth time, at how to structure this
>> material.
>> > Is there a clearer method to present this material?
>>
>> Rewrites!
>> Aparently I was AFRAID of this!
>>
>> Okay so Week 1 in review?
>> Eehhh
>> At least it's something.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Schedule for week 2, Jan '08
>>
>> Scan Images from "Places of Worship, 150 years of Latter-day Saint
>> architecture".
>> Buildings are coming up fast, I'd like to have Images available.
>>
>> Edit at least one Wiki page.
>>
>> Check feedback and prepare a speculative post in response.
>>
>> Post Labour.
>>
>> Prepare presentation post on Cities.
>>
>> In PlainText tidy up the Spell List.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
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