RE: (TFT) Intentions - as I understand them, at least

["John J Hyland" <johnnyboytmm@juno.com>]

--------- "Ray Rangel" >
wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------
 sometimes ST=16 will be enough, sometimes
it won't be, depending the need to further the plot. It is adequate and
functional to simply state what the values need to be for an average human.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
This seems about right to me.  For me (and I guess, Ray) the description of a
portal may be "requires st17 to lift unaided, or 30 pts dam to break down"
And that is enough detail/abstraction for game play, and if the party
possesses a "sturdy rope" and attaches it to the door, so that 2 ST16 heros
cal lift together, the GM makes a judgement call as to whether it is enough to
work.
If I get Jay, I think he is looking to be able to say "the portal is 5 inches
thick, made of local hardwoods, reinforced with pig-iron lags and rivits"  So
knowing that local to this area (due to his hex scaling work) he'd know that
the most abundant local hard wood is oak.  Doing a little math (8ft by 4 feet
by 5 inches of oak weighs X amount plus Y iron bits, gives x+y=Z mass of door)
so the door weighs z.  Knowing the definition of 1ST, Jay can then calculate
the min ST needed to lift it (for argument sake, lets say 17).  Also knowing
the value of 1 HP (technically also 1ST, but in a different fashoin) he can
calculate the dam to bust through the portal (for argument sake, lets say 30
pts).  At the end of the day we have the same door, just different ways of
getting there. :-)
But, what about the rope idea?  Well, Ray and I decide using GM fiat (we may
well attempt to be reasonable, but GM fiat is still the right descriptor, I
think).  Jay wants to KNOW whether the rope trick will work, from physics.  So
a 3/8 inch hemp rope can support B load before it snaps, 2 guys with str 16
can generate C force by pulling on the rope, some fraction D of that force
will be applied to raising the door (I think it is the sine or cosine of the
angle of incidence of the rope from the 90degree angle of the door, but I
don't remember precisely, and am too lazy to look it up) while the rest is not
so applied (a little inefficiency slips into the process).  So again, a quick
calculation gets the answer.  If C times D is greater than the force needed to
raise the door, it will open, unless the value of C needed in the CD calc is
greater than B, in that case the rope snaps.  In either case the facts on the
ground determine the answer, rather than GM fiat.  So any GM and any group of
players will get the exact same result.
Now this might be sort of a trivial example to go into great detail on (but
without great detail on trivial examples, what would we discuss on the list)
but I  think it gets the idea accross, and I really wanted to use an example
to lay out my understanding, and ask Ray and Jay (am I the only one thinking "
But, ya doesn't have to call me Mr. Johnson"?) to  confirm if I've got their
positions right.  I know I understand my position, which I believe in this
example I share with Ray.

Assuming that I am correct in my understanding, I wish Jay well, and will
watch his endeavor with interest, and occasionally chime in with comments of
dubious value, but am unlikely to adopt a game like his, because my comfort
zone involves a lot more abstraction than I think he's going for.  As long
time readers of the list may recall, I tend to land on the playability side of
the realism vs playability scale.  So any new mechanic has to add a lot of fun
to the game for me to want to adopt it.
I'm not saying Jay's mechanics might not be cool, and just perfect for him, I
just don't see them in my game.  After all, it took me 25 yrs to introduce my
first HTH combat, and the jury is still out on whether it stays as a long term
feature of my game or not.
Regards,
John

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