So with all the talk of LOU (by me, as I look for a mass combat
vehicle for TFT) and DOU (by Paul who has unearthed a couple of
copies) I skimmed them both again.
A couple of things jumped out at me (mainly in DOU). I had always
considered DOU a very stripped down version of TFT, stripped down
to the point of being an incomplete RPG, and never understood
why. After a re-read, I realize it is not an incomplete RPG, but
rather a very small scale TFT-based wargame, complete with
scenarios and victory conditions. I don't know why it took me so
long to realize that, since Metagaming was a small scale wargame shop.
I think David's description of using TFT as a narrative wargame may
have triggered the epiphany for me. Also, David, you may want to
give DOU a look, since it is very much a TFT wargame.
Also, it is clear that Metagaming intended to crank out more
scenarios for LOU, probably in Interplay, but also in CONQUERORS OF
UNDEREARTH, a product mentioned in LOU, where they intend to
describe the effects of non-combat talents and spells. these were
listed in LOU but not described, which was partly why I always
considered it incomplete. It turns out it was intentional, those
rules were to come out in the next installment.
On to DOU, which is totally a wargame. Counters for companies,
individual sentry scout and leader counters, and creatures -
Dragon, scorpion, bear, gargoyle, etc. In section 19 of the rules
it talks about using DOU resolution mechanic (1 d 6) to determine
large scale NPC battles in TFT. It discusses it in very broad terms.
But lets say you wanted to have PCs lead companies of NPCs into
skirmishes, how to make PCs into Leaders? And what about other
creatures?
And for Jay - - "How does it scale?"
First for Jay.
HEXES - A DOU hex is 8 TFT hexes across (with a TFT hex being
defined as a melee megahex). Or so the rules say. Of course you
cannot draw a hex (on hex paper) 8 across, it is either 7 or 9, no
8. I went with 9. (so 9MH across or 27 Melee hexes)
TIME- a DOU round is 72 TFT or Melee rounds according to DOU.
but does iy compute? A figure with a move of 10 could go 720 hexes
in 72 rds, kinda off. But in DOU counters move and attack every
round, so they must only move 1/2 there move each turn, or no more
than 360 hexes (still seems high) but wait, there's more, Counters
attack into adjacent DOU hexes, so there is a need to travel a bit
further, to get the attack into the next DOU hex, lets say an extra
1/3 of thw way, or 90melee hexes, bringing the total to 360, or
half of the original calc. I think that DOU makes that sort of
simplifying assumption about movement and combat to turn an RPG
scale into a wargame scale for time and distance.
How's that, Jay? You've got me back-filling the logic to make the
canon scales work.
Now, How big is a "company"? 25 individuals.
That is not actually described in section 19, but a little trial
and error calculation got me there. The Company counters have
combat strength (CS) and Movement, and the conversion says divide
total company St+Dx by 13 to get CS for leather equipped troops,
plus or minus 5-10 CS for better armor (chain et al) or unarmored.
Shields apparently don't matter to CS, which I am OK with, since
without a shield you get to use 2h weapons, about a wash in a big
enough company sized melee. Making an allowance for the Dwarf
counters to be a little over-powered in terms of CS (as the rules
state they are) and estimating the armor of the units by their MA,
I can get to an even 25 man company, with chain being worth 10 CS
over leather, and no armor being worth -5 CS vs leather. S0 broadly
Armor over 2 is worth .4 CS per hit stopped and -.1 per hit stopped
less than 2, good to know.
For individuals we are told CS is St + Dx over 10 (not 13) and
adjusted up for magic items etc. The same calcs (including armor
values up and down) works for individuals too, once I give the
dwarves an edge like the rules say to, and assuming that the magic
items are equal to better armor.
The same calcs also work OK for the creatures in the game, with the
CS factor being 13 (like for companies) with some minor tweaking
for special attacks (like multiple attacks, poison for scorpion,
regen for troll - .3, .3, and .2 CS respectively) etc. Oddly, the
gargoyle math only worked if it was treated as an individual (CS
factor 10, not 13) rather than as a creature, after all it is a
playable TFT race.
Except for the dragon, whose CS is way too high for the TFT
conversion, but is needed to make it a good wargame threat. Just
figure it is a way more powerful dragon that the 14 hex DOU claims.
So to convert a PC to a Leader type CS in DOU, I'd divide the 2
highest attributed by 10 (not st and dx, because PCs tend to not
just be unthinking brutes, and wizards need a break once in a
while). Then adjust up a smidge if the PC is toting self powered
magic items (I'd say plus .1 to .2CS per plus for magic weaponry,
and some ad-hoc GM fiat for anything else).
At this point, in theory, I could just use the resolution mechanic
in LOU for company size skirmishes or larger battles that PCs take
part in (letting them lead companies they stack with, and thereby
adding a leader counter moral bonus to the stack. That way adding
the PCs to a big mook fight would really make a difference, since 9
extra leader bonuses is a big deal.
BUT, the LOU resolution mechanic is a little blunt for PC
involvement (fine for NPC battle resolution though).
I think I will work on making it more granular next (also try a few
melee fights between small units to see it the CS resolutions track
well with the melee results (the melee simulator would probably
help here, If I can find it and make it work - i am a luddite after
all). Once I have a sense of the right ratio of results by CS,
then a more granular resolution roll, with results other than
"Retreat", and "Entire stack destroyed" is next. Followed by rules
for TFT level PC effects associated with each stack scale result.
And finally, maybe some PC Talent and spell related bonuses to CS
(say a benefit for tactics, or for certain spells (fire, wall,
summon bear, illusion, etc) or even for PC decisions, like say
moving the PC level TFFT result up or down the danger scale in
exchange for a one time CS bonus. How vested is the PC in the fight?
So I have the DOU scale figured, and I can do the calcs to convert
a TFT Character to a run of the mill leader type individual in DOU,
or a TFT creature to a LOU creature, or a bunch of TFT mooks into a
LOU company.
Now I want to be able to make PCs "special" leaders so that it
would be fun enough to work into a TFT RPG. Though it may already
be enough to work into a narrative wargame like Davids.
More to Come
John
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