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RE: (TFT) Wizard mods - out of balance?

Quoting David Michael Grouchy II <david_michael_grouchy_ii@hotmail.com>:

> Quoting David Michael Grouchy II <david_michael_grouchy_ii@hotmail.com>:
>
> I mean Illusionist is an ENTIRE
> character class in AD&D. It's a two point talent in TFT. 
D'oh,
that should say "It's a one point spell in TFT."

>
> And here I disagree, at least in part.
I'll still be disagreeing in part, but in perahps a different part. 
There is a phrase called "overloaded functions" wich means that a single
Yeah, I do C++, too. It's the D&D version of overloading. Look at Common Lisp's generic functions, and you'll see the TFT version. 
a string, or structures, excetera.  In that vein I allow a great deal of
creativity in wizard characters overloading their spells, with the intent that a single spell in TFT is equal to an entire character class in D&D. For instance. Flight spell costs one to cast, and one per turn to maintain. But if the 
spell ends, and the character is still in the air they 'float gently to the
ground.' (AW)  So with a single point of fatigue a TFT wizard can fly for a
turn and "feather fall" wich are two seperate spells in D&D.
I see the example. But I see it as more as having an odd mapping from system to system. While researching my previous answer, I saw some AD&D spells that mapped to more than 1 TFT spell, and vice versa. 
In the same way an Illusion spell in TFT covers a ton of things.  Sounds,
lights, illusions, various beings, even darkness and blue on inanimate objects 
(the only limit on illusion being it cant be cast on an occupied hex.)
Illusions of weapons, flaming arrows, and all kinds of things not even
included in D&D are also possible.  Including the ever risky illusion of a
demon.  Far far more comprehensive than D&D and I don't have to shell out
thirty quid for a new hard back book, for each spell a character has.
However, any of those effects cast as a TFT Illusion can be disbelieved. The AD&D spells (other than Phantasmal Force, which is somewhere between Image and Illusion), and the direct effect spells (Blur, for example), cannot. The mapping from system to system may be significant, but is not perfect by any means. 
I too find it interesting that D&D has 'multi class characters' where someone
can be an illusionist/fighter/cleric, but in TFT one can learn
Illusion/Warrior+weapons/Physicker at game start without having to spend years 
switching classes.  Yet somehow this is brushed aside, and because D&D has
more books, and heavier books, somehow TFT creates weaker characters who need
more buffing.
The beginning TFT character is overly skilled compared to his AD&D counterpart. Also, notice how all the recent variants of D&D try to add character to characters by adding more stuff to their character sheet. My take on rleplaying is that it should not be possible to derive enjoyment from the game simply by 'playing the numbers'. 
In other words, where D&D deliniates specific and narrowly defined powers for
any one spell or weapon skill, I use TFT's lack of restriction to be a
definition of much more flexibility.
So do I, but not in the same manner. 
Simply put,
in my campaigns most villagers have zero talents, and rely on their
attributes. A village elder or witch doctor may have a single talent or spell, and be the 
most valuable commodity to that village,
and a person with two talents is equivalent to a Runelord (from Runequest) who is on a hero quest.
I do not do this. It smacks too much of the '0th level character'. I find adventurer's to be a state of mind or profession, rather than having them somehow be inherently more heroic. 
Further I would like to add that I don't ask anyone else to look at it this
way.  But for two and a half decades, I have players who are very satisfied,
and love exploring my worlds. It's a campaign where a player with a character 
who bothers to pick a mundane talent like "farming" can enter a village of
farmers, who have been farming for ten generations, and completely
revolutionize what they are doing. He can both show them an easier way to get 
what they want, and with much higher yeilds.  Thus sowing the talent of
Farming itself into their community. Much like the scientific farming efforts of the French Nobles during the renaissance.
This is the sort of thing I don't do. Successful peasant farmers in my world have Farming as a Talent. If someone is going to revolutionize things, it'd take research. 
It just grumbles me a little when I see people making TFT talents out to be
some kind of 'entry-level' barely can hitch a plow kind of skill, that is in
need of buffing.
I agree. But for me, Talents are within the grasp of average people. 
For me it comes down to the definition of Talent.  As in real talent.  As in
the thing legends are made of.
Then, in my opinion, Talents could not be learned.
And in my campaign the Talents are on level with god like abilities. At least 
in the medieval world view.  Cause remember, anyone can plant a seed, but
acording to TFT a talent has to be learned from someone who already has it.
ITL, page 16, and I quote, "For most Talents, simple study as your character goes about his business will be enough."
Personally, I allow characters to research new Talents in much the way a Wizard would research a new spell. 
Neil Gilmore
raito@raito.com
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