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Re: (TFT) please help (OT?)

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Mark wrote:

> :
>> Space travel thoughts all... Mr T! I'm looking in your direction!
>        Sounds like the rest of the list has a lot better ideas than I for
> gaming versions of space combat.
>        For "realism" I have a few thoughts.

Yes, I was thinking of what can pass something of a sniff test from those
more knowledgable than myself for conceptual basis.
Not that I don't appreciate the info on good mechanics.

>        Transportation breaks down between "chemical" "nuclear" and "magic".
> "Chemical" - what we have now. Limited to a few 10's of km/s and then only
> with huge fuel/mass ratios, so orbital mechanics is a big deal. You pretty
> much have to figure out how to let gravity and inertia take you where you
> want to go, and use your few km/s to get you set up properly for that to
> (eventually) happen. That's more or less the equivalent of sailing ships
> for transoceanic voyages - it'll take a long time and you are more or less
> at the mercy of currents and winds.
I think of this as "balistic" though that's probably not the best term.
Solar sails are here I think as well as the nuke-warhead rider that spits a
'bomb' out back and rides the 'shockwave'.

> "Nuclear" - next generation, includes a pretty good range of possibilities
> up to 100's of km/s but all rely on getting a bunch more energy out of your
> power source than you could hope to get by chemical reactions. This is more
> or less the equivalent of steam ships and diesel ships. You can set a
> schedule and pretty much keep to it.
Okay I call this "space-engines".
Travel times are significantly reduced, even at small g constant boosts,
and there can actually be a sort of 'gravity' on the ship through much of
the "trip" (like the mid-trip flip).
Traveler Snapshot mods adj accordingly.

> "Magic" - Star Trek/Star Wars, you have some sort of drive that makes
> space look like nothing. This would be more or less the equivalent of a
> modern jetliner for a transoceanic voyage. The water (representing "normal
> space") is no longer really relevant, although still visible; you are
> moving so far "above" it that it's just a pretty view; sea state, sargasso
> weed, the once-crucial currents and winds, all no longer signify
> (unless/until your drive breaks).

hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm <takes deep breath> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Gates are a real... problem.
Apothosis lies in THAT direction.

>        At some point, relativity gets involved and you start having to
> crank in time dilation, redshift/blueshift, and similar effects. At some
> point, very fast (relative to you) dust particles hitting you become fatal
> projectiles; likewise normal light photons blue-shifted up to the gamma
> radiation range. Apparently, "magic" drives overcome both of these effects
> and probably many others.
>        Whatever "magic" drives do to bust physics (and note, physics would
> tell you there is simply no way to travel 600 mph over an ocean - the waves
> would shred you even if your ship could survive), the weapons used will
> depend heavily on that. As has been pointed out, a laser is pretty useless
> against a ship that moves faster than light, no matter how powerful the
> laser is. So combat is a little bit of a wild card. Missiles make more
> sense than beams, imho.
Well yeah but just getting into combat at all in a space environment is
pretty challenging conceptually.
And "busting physics" is a relative term... <ducks to avoid projectiles
hurled at person resulting from bad pun>
>From a RPG standpoint I think it's more important to have a consistant
game-world than it is to get obsesive about actual theory but from an
educational standpoint it would be nice to have something that might stand
up to some of the results I fear are comming in the next couple of
years, right after I commit to an incorrect model if experience is any
However, as I currently understand the state of the "art" (through a glass
darkly at best) it is concevable that 300,000 kps isn't the "limit"
everywhere, all the time.
For example, I've never been a huge fan of 'Inflation' (although I am a fan
of A. Gluth).
I don't dig singularities much either.
So I came up with a distgustingly blatant, narcissistic creationist myth
for the game-world-universe I use.
I've got a malfunctioning brane.
I don't want to pump too much energy into a negative prospect here
(negative energy is bad m-kay?) but I could see jumps out of the solar
system progressing in several ways depending on just how good we are at
physics and cosmology just now and what the GM wants to say about their
1 Hopping.
Asimov describs this overlapping of Oort Clouds and the potential for at
least Alpha Centari by such a method.
2 Space Lanes
Super vaguley concevable "veins" of space-time where the speed of light may
be orders of magnatitude faster than more "normal" regions.
3 Warp Drive
O.S.Card could be right here (as much as I didn't like the "taste" of the
solution) as it's space that moves here rather than the "vehicle", but the
energy requirements remind me of Glatcus or some kind of star devouring bit
that makes the "trip" pretty much a one way proposistion.
Tie star travel Gates to that maybe?
The Dark Lord wants to go to Alpha Centari and is gonna snuff old Sol to do
Can the Mech Guild get to the "Moon" before the Wiz Guild?

>        I'm not sure whether it'll trap your thinking into an unproductive
> rut, but the sailing ships analogy above can be stretched other ways, as
> well. For example, one of the ISS's functions is to study the effect of
> prolonged weightlessness on human physiology; c.f. scurvy in the early days
> of sailing ships.
Hee hee hee, that scruvy refrence is dead on thinking on RPG effects.
Why no citrius in Traveler?
Again, I think it has to do with game-world conception.

>        Hope this helps! Plenty more babble where that came from, just let
> me know what you want.
Is this FOR REAL?!?
I mean... I MEAN... WTF?!?
Is it just me or do Mars missions have a HUGE rate of failure?
The one that killed me was the english to metric miss.
I don't think I believe it.
Weather satalite my fat white ass for example.
Bad luck?
Back to star travel, if "space" UFO's exsist then they come from within the
solar system via our current understandings (pretty good regionally at
Not enough "mass" for tiny little things.
Not that I really think such things, but it makes a bit of ironic sense if
the Martians were as bad at landing on earth as we were at Mars ah la

>        I note that this is sliding possibly off-topic for this list; if
> other readers wish, let me know and I can go to private mails.
> --

 I have a really hard time thinking that this list wouldn't be interested
in your thoughts on this Mark.
If someone does take you up on this and both parties are okay with it then
please cc me on that if you don't mind.
No biggie if not though.
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