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Re: (TFT) Combined Offensive/Defensive Action
Very true where the blade or axe lands on the armour is much more important
than how hard you hit. A blow that hit a joint (neck, armpit, knee or groin)
was often devastating as where there are many discriptions of men at arms
being surrounded and being pummel by several opponents who managed to walk out
unscathed.
Edward Kroeten
Farmers Agent
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Newark, CA 94560
Phone 510-579-0135
Fax 510-438-6875
Website: www.kroeteninsurance.com
------ Original Message ------
Received: 01:24 PM PDT, 08/23/2013
From: raito@raito.com
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: Re: (TFT) Combined Offensive/Defensive Action
> That's a neat, interesting, and relevant story. How tired were you
after
> attacking him at 11/10 for fifteen minutes? And how much of a role
would
> you say that physical condition has on rate of fatigue? Speaking
for
> myself, in my 40's and not in very good condition at the moment, I
> notice that swishing my full-weight broadsword through the air a
few
> times results in fatigue I can feel, though I wouldn't say it
affected
> performance yet.
I went on to practice another hour or so. Conditioning is quite a
factor,
but experience is a bigger one. If TFT terms, I rather consider part
of
the maintenance of the weapon Talent to be conditioning. It's worthy
of
note that I'm over 50, yet I can swing a weapon effectively a lot
longer
than much younger guys who are in better shape, but have less
experience.
I've handled some real medieval weapons from the Oakeshott
Institute.
They're pretty light. Considering that a piece of steel of diamond
section
30" long that's 2" X 1/4" at the base and 1" X 1/8" at the other end
weighs about 1.5 ponds, swords are really a lot lighter than most
people
think. Rapiers, on the other hand, seem to weigh more. But they're
longer,
and have more counterweight. I think the total weight of my SCA
swords is
about 2.5 pounds.
> And, I wonder what you'd say about your experience with the effect
of
> carried weight and armor ventilation have on fatigue rate, or the
> effect of air temperature or humidity?
My current kit weighs about 45 lbs. One of the things Rolemaster got
right
is that wearing armour is a skill. I can put on my stuff when I get
up and
leave it on until I go to bed, and have no problems. Those young guys
get
worn out just wearing their kit. Armour ventilation and its effect
on
fatigue is a bit of a myth as far as I'm concerned. I moved from
Madison
to Austin for 3 years. Oddly enough, their rules down there required
me to
add armour (rigid forearm armour). They were mostly wearing nothing
above
their navels. The heat didn't cause me any trouble. Most armour will
pump
air through itself as you move. Even when I used to wear padding
under my
stuff, I never had ventilation problems (I got more protective stuff,
and
dropped the padding).
The helmet is more of a problem than the armour. Humidity can be a
problem, as damp air holds more heat. But I can still last longer
than a
lot of guys wearing their ultra-high-tech wicking underwear and
whatnot.
> Of course, I notice in your story that you are talking about
fifteen
> minutes of fighting, and him being tired but not incapacitated.
True. But also true that I was not injuring him at all.
Also note that he was trying to strike me, he was just unable to get
his
blows off before I got mine in, or stymied his attempt.
> Which makes me wonder too, if you had fought him with real weapons
> and armor, how long do you think it would have been before he fell
> from wounds?
The armour is real, the weapons are not. Please note that in a lot of
real
medieval friendly combat, the point wasn't to injure the other guy,
it was
to prove you were man enough to risk injury.
Given the disaprity in experience (particularly as SCA fighting is
far
from the only method of combat I've trained with), It would have been
over
in a turn or so. Since he was in armour, I wouldn't have bothered
trying
to strike through his with a single handed sword. There's a growing
body
of research that says (gasp) that armour is really pretty good
protection
against that sort of thing. I'd have grabbed him, thrown him to the
ground, and shoved my sword through his armpit.
There's many accounts, both Eurpoean and Oriental, where bashing on
the
guy's armour just tired him out until he's tired enough for the other
guy
to overpower him.
If you want to read up on wounds and such, get a hold of the book on
Wisby. Lots of forensic stuff in there. And if you want to read up on
how
real medievals fought in armor, look up guys like Fiore, Jeu de la
Hache
(not a guy, but a manual of poleaxe combat), Talhoffer, Lichtenauer,
etc.
Very informative. These guys weren't just musclemen swinging for the
fences. They were highly skilled.
Neil Gilmore
raito@raito.com
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