Re: (TFT) The year is 20XX...

[Jeffrey Vandine <jlv61560@yahoo.com>]

Test


________________________________
 From: Erol K. Bayburt <Ero
lB1@aol.com>
To: tft@brainiac.com 
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:51 P
M
Subject: Re: (TFT) The year is 20XX...
 

I think we may be misun
derstanding each other: I'm asking where, 
exactly, Metagaming published 
"three hexes in a straight line" as an 
official TFT rule.

If they d
idn't publish it anywhere as an official TFT rule, then it 
isn't an offi
cial TFT rule but only Yet Another Proposed Optional Rule.

(Not that I
'd use it even if it were "official." But I like to keep 
track of what t
he official rules are even when I don't use them.)

Erol K. Bayburt
E
rolB1@aol.com

On 4/15/2014 12:29 PM, David O. Miller wrote:
> Nothin
g written up, as I said just inferred from reading a lot about
> the subj
ect from a variety of sources. I wasn't there so I don't know
> for sure 
but I think my conclusions are probably close to the truth.
>
> I total
ly agree with you about over-corrections. In my humble opinion
> trying t
o fix a perceived problem with the pole weapon rules by
> introducing mor
e rules is not in the spirit of the game. However
> people are free to al
ter any game to make it fit better with their,
> and their groups, playin
g style. I'm certainly not a rules lawyer in
> that regard! I too have ad
ded in a couple of small rule "tweaks" over
> the years.
>
> I'm sure
 whatever solution you come up with, if applied consistently,
> will work
.
>
> If you'd like to try out the: back up one hex and "lunge" attack 
back
> into your opponent, adding an additional die of damage if you hit

> tweak. It's worked great for our group for the past 15 years or so.

>
> Good luck! David __________________________________________ David O.

> Miller www.meleewizards.com Miller Design/Illustration
> www.davidom
iller.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2014, at 12:56 PM, "Erol K
. Bayburt" <ErolB1@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I knew that a lot of ideas 
for "fixing" the pole weapons were
>> thrown around after Steve Jackson l
eft Metagaming, but I didn't
>> think anything official had been settled 
on. Where was this written
>> up? Interplay?
>>
>> My own house rules
 do include something like your two suggestions,
>> but that's because I 
have deliberately set out to change the
>> "flavor" of combat in my own c
ampaign.
>>
>> I am on the side that sees the pole weapon charge rules 
as broken,
>> but I also think that most of the proposed changes are
>>
 over-corrections, if one wants to stick close to the letter and
>> spiri
t of the original rules. And that includes the "three hexes in
>> a strai
ght line" requirement, official or not.
>>
>> Erol K. Bayburt ErolB1@ao
l.com
>>
>> On 4/15/2014 10:50 AM, David O. Miller wrote:
>>> Erol,

>>>
>>> Howard Thompson and team added that in after Steve Jackson had

>>> left the company. It's only in the very last addition of TFT and,

>>> as far as I can tell, was added because of a lot of vocal
>>> dissati
sfaction concerning the pole weapon charge attack rules.
>>> Of course th
ose of us who don't think the rule is broken usually
>>> don't complain a
bout it. Therefore I think it was a simple case
>>> of the squeaky wheel 
gets the oil. The other possible factor is
>>> that Thompson was trying t
o move away from Jackson's version of
>>> the rules and mold them more to
 his own tastes. Me, I'll stick
>>> with the original designer's rules.

>>>
>>> Two quick things.1. I think a lot of people got hung up on the

>>> word "charge". Call it a one hex "lunge" attack and the rule
>>> s
uddenly just sounds better.
>>>
>>> 2. If you really want to nerf the t
wo top tiered pole weapons
>>> just add in an extra die damage rather tha
n double what's rolled.
>>> Keeps the lower pole weapons doing basically 
double damage while
>>> lowering the bite of the two big ones.
>>>
>>
> My two cents, David __________________________________________
>>> Davi
d O. Miller www.meleewizards.com Miller Design/Illustration
>>> www.david
omiller.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 15, 2014, at 1
1:34 AM, "Erol K. Bayburt" <ErolB1@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The r
ules for pole weapons and charge attacks are as big a
>>>> magnet for hou
se-rule changes as the rules for HTH combat.
>>>>
>>>> The TFT wiki has
 under "Charge Attack" the note "Special case
>>>> for pole weapons (x2 d
amage, if last 3 hexes in a line)." Is
>>>> this an official rule from Me
tagaming, added late in TFT's
>>>> history? Or is it a house rule that so
mehow crept into what
>>>> should be a list of official, "by the book" ru
les?
>>>>
>>>> As a suggestion made with an eye to keeping the rule cha
nges
>>>> as simple and minimal as possible, I'll push forward:
>>>>

>>>> "A figure using a pole weapon in a charge attack situation does
>>>>
 not get either double damage or the possible +2 DX bonus if he
>>>> and 
his opponent were in adjacent hexes at any time during the
>>>> previous 
turn."
>>>>
>>>> Erol K. Bayburt ErolB1@aol.com
>>>>
>>>> On 4/15/2
014 3:13 AM, Edmund Nelson wrote:
>>>>> ... And everybody uses spears to 
absolute perfection. I
>>>>> really don't see how there is any counter at
 all to spears
>>>>> without armor other than getting very lucky, the gen
eral rule
>>>>> in melee is be 1 Dexterity higher than them or 8 Dexterit
y
>>>>> lower and be invulernable to their attacks. unfortunately
>>>>>
 spears have an amazing properties in being pole weapons, The
>>>>> user 
can disengage from the slower enemy and instead of
>>>>> dealing many wea
ker shots they can deal one double damage
>>>>> attack every 2 turns rath
er than having 1 double damage
>>>>> attack followed by a string of weake
r ones. this makes most
>>>>> heavy armor characters weak to spears.  o
ne needs to have an
>>>>> odd amount of armor to beat spears reasonably, 
so they avoid
>>>>> getting knocked down by the spearman on rolls 2 or gr
eater.
>>>>> this provides us with the following configurations as
>>>>
> potential candidates to beat spearmen Cutless Small shield
>>>>> No arm
or- 14 Dexterity lets him  hit spearmen turn 1 and
>>>>> survives on a 
roll .less than 3, however still is very weak
>>>>> to just taking damage
 and unfortunately just can't cut it
>>>>> Broadsword small shield Leathe
r armor 10 Dexterity vs 13,
>>>>> unfortunately you Still suffer from the
 problem of losing to
>>>>> the initial charge quit often, sure spearmen 
hit the initial
>>>>> charge a little less than 50% of the time, but when
 they do
>>>>> you die 2/3rds of the time, so the amount you are favored 
in
>>>>> the mid game does not make up for the disfavor early
>>>>>
>
>>>> The only candidate I find that might be a spear counter is
>>>>> Cut
lass with Chain and a large shield the strategy is to
>>>>> defend on the
 turn of charge and then to counterattack on the
>>>>> retreat, though ju
st how good that is is hard to know because
>>>>> it is hard to simulate,
 The best I can come up with is Charge
>>>>> attack turn (turn 1) Spearma
n has a 40% chance (rounded) of
>>>>> hitting the cutlass user If they hi
t they do 1 1/6 times 3
>>>>> 1/6 5 1/6 7 1/6 Instant kill 2/6 Note that 
the spearman needs
>>>>> to deal 9 damage to get a kill and not 10, also 
note that
>>>>> there are a neat set of permutations that lead to kills, 
they
>>>>> have about a 13% chance to instantly kill the cutlass user
>
>>>> every combat, and 2/6ths of the time deal significant damage
>>>>> a
nd 2/6ths of the time deal marginal damage (though 3+7
>>>>> and thu
s cated  they hit 50% of the
>>>>> time but they go second, they also dea
l less damage overall,
>>>>> I'd give this matchup to the spearman for no
w until more data
>>>>> is gathered about spear vs armor.
>>>>>
>>>>>
 .com. Unsubscribe by mailing to
>>>>> majordomo@brainiac.com with the mes
sage body "unsubscribe
>>>>> tft"

>>>>>
>>>> to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
>>>> Unsubscribe by ma
iling to majordomo@brainiac.com with the
>>>> message body "unsubscribe t
ft"
>>>
>>>
>>>  tft@brainiac.com.
>>> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com w
ith the
>>> message body "unsubscribe tft"
>>>
>> t to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
>> Unsubscribe by ma
iling to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message
>> body "unsubscribe tft
"
>
>
> iniac.com.
> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the me
ssage
> body "unsubscribe tft"
>
 list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo
@brainiac.com with the message body
"unsubscribe tft"
Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
"unsubscribe tft"