Re: Dark City Games etc

__________________________________________

David O. Miller

Miller Design/Illustration

www.davidomiller.com

2 Dean Court

East Northport, NY 11731

(631) 266-6875

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Nathan Easton <n.m.easton@gmail.com> wrote:

Is that a bunch of Heroscape hexes painted black?

-N.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 11:34 AM, David O. Miller <davidomiller@verizon.net> wrote:
Hey everyone,

A couple of quick thoughts:

Dark City is really in the business to provide scenarios that are compatible with TFT, as well as GURPS. That's what they sell. They are not really in the rule book business, that's one reason the rules are free for the taking (that and to avoid any copyright issues). From the very beginning they created their simplified rule set as a basis to work off of for creating their scenarios, to give them internal consistancy (weapon damage, movement, etc.). The rules are also provided for new players coming to this style of game that do not have access to the older TFT rules, or even GURPS for that matter. This basic rule set at least gets new players started. It's always been kinda assumed that the older, retro gamers would, or could, use whatever system they preferred. I know they go to great lengths to keep their scenarios as compatible as possible with TFT and GURPS. I play their scenarios using basic TFT and they work great. (And yes, I've added in my own similar take on their rules concerning skills.)

A few years back some considerable thought went into creating a more "advanced" set of rules. What happened was that this simply broke down. Most of us here have probably been playing TFT for over 30 years now and, as you can tell by reading some of the threads on this email list, everyone has their very own, personal way to play. One person likes 3 hex pole arm charges, others like shift one hex and get a charge - one GM wants the base 3 stats, another wants to add in the extra stat for health, or magic power - that kinda thing. And with rules there's always a trickle down effect. You add in one small tweak here, an adjustment there, and it cascades throughout the entire rule set, changing things as it goes. It became fairly obvious that it was an impossible task. There was just no way to strike a balance that would make everyone happy, including the designers!

So the free rules on their site are indeed somewhat like guidelines. They are absolutely playable as is, but a lot of us prefer to embellish and interpret rules anyway, so they are left a bit simple on purpose.

As for the maps, well, to keep the per unit cost down they only print the one map. It is full color on card stock, and if they included a unique map for every encounter it wouldn't fit in the polly bag anymore, and the cost would skyrocket. Personally I never use their maps anyway. Just like most gamers of a certain age I have scores of miniatures and hex maps. I just use those. In fact making custom maps to game on, along with modular terrain, is a great aspect of this game. (For examples of this visit: http://www.meleewizards.com/photos_dark%20vale.html)

Of course this all depends on how you like to play. Do you like cardboard counters on a paper map? Or do you like miniature figures on hex terrain. Or something in-between?

Hopefully that helps somewhat. George or Bret are of course welcome to step in here and embellish/disagree with anything that I've said!

Oh, and someone mentioned something about Steve Jackson and TFT. There is no way he'd ever touch that, even if he could buy the rights. From what I've been told he's moved on. His focus is on GURPS. TFT would be a step backwards to him. That and Dark City Games owns the trademark on the name "The Fantasy Trip".

David

__________________________________________
David O. Miller
Miller Design/Illustration
www.davidomiller.com

2 Dean Court
East Northport, NY 11731
(631) 266-6875

On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:34 AM, PvK <pvk@oz.net> wrote:

--- jlv61560@yahoo.com wrote:
Well, in DCG's defense on the maps thing -- if you pop open your old Death Test map, you'll see that DCG's maps are clearly a cut above!
(Of course, 30 years after the fact, they sort of should be, I guess! ;-) ) And I like the fact that I get a completely playable game,
right out of the baggie...much like the old Microgames/quests when it comes right down to it.

The DCG adventures seem really well done, but the free sample space-age adventures seem to have two maps each, both of which have very little terrain and are re-used for many scenes which describe settings which should have very different terrain from the descriptions, but they just say to use the 5x5 map or whatever... and the maps are always so small that the one minimal effect of range (being out of range of non-missile attacks long enough to get a free shot or two off) is usually a non-issue.

I take it the full adventures have much better maps?

Ya, it is much easier/cheaper to provide maps than it was circa 1980.

I agree with you that much detail for a full RPG experience is missing -- if you check out the forums at DCG, you'll see all sorts of
comments on that, but at the end of the day, what they give you works quite well for it's intended purpose -- a quick playing miniquest.
I would like to see them go in to more detail though...
To me, their best feature is the way the skills work -- that and the healing magic! For the rest of it, I have to admit I backslide
into TFT pretty thoroughly when playing the games.

Yep. I did read and post on the forums. They clearly have a focus on providing very concise simple rules and letting players play or
even interpret or change whatever they're written. But the format is almost a shorthand "quick reference" style, and they don't seem
to realize how much they've left out or left unclear. I think it shows more in the Time & Space and Untamed West rules, where the
combat is mainly rolling to hit each other back and forth until dead, with the only issues being if you are close enough to attack
any other way, or if you can actually block line of fire or take cover (which is always the same value), oh and whom to shoot at.
No range penalties, no hit locations, no body positions, no cover types, no snap shots, no effects of injury, no ammo limits, no
differences between guns other than damage, shots per turn, min ST, or hands required. Etc. Which, hey, I can fill in from TFT,
GURPS, or my imagination, or player suggestions on DCG forums, but it's pretty bare bones.

Likewise, CW Brandon's Heroes and Other Worlds is an interesting take on TFT, and he has a lot of support material out for it,
including a fairly comprehensive monster manual that translates most of the D&D monsters into TFT-ish versions (though I think a
number of them are fairly overinflated in characteristics). I disagree with his EN (Endurance, or health, or HPs, if you like)
characteristic though -- not because I feel it's a bad idea (after all Steve Jackson went down that road with GURPS), but because
it only applies to the PCs...which feels a bit "gamey" to me. Still he's got an interesting system there, and he too uses a
DCG-like skills system.

That does feel gamey. I didn't see that per se in the current rules. There are instead some other PC metagame survival/advantages,
namely "karma" and wishes. Maybe those got revised out?

(GURPS has a health score, but it isn't generally used as a way to soak more wounds than you would in TFT. Also in 4e they
interestingly back-pedalled and swapped ST back to the stat that wound capacity is based on.)

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