Re: Melee Movement/Action chart

[PvK <pvk@oz.net>]

Having read just about all of the SJGames forums discussions and the latest versions of the rules, I would say HTH initiation above 1/2 MA has not been much clarified or discussed by thorough people, but there are new confusing versions of the rules to choose between (new Melee, new ITL options list, new ITL HTH section).

Personally, I would go with Advanced Melee for everything but an accurate mention of "the rear", and/or the new ITL HTH section (which is I think identical). 

There IS, however, one seeming point of clarification IF you trust new Melee's HTH section, which says to use CHARGE ATTACK to initiate HTH, which gives 1/2 MA, not full MA.

I would note too that that seems to me to agree with my careful reading of Advanced Melee (i.e. if you study the AM options list, it clearly shows HTH ititiation as an option when you move 1/2 MA, and not in the full MA section III.

(I utterly distrust the new ITL options list, as it is a mess that has caused terrible confusion and wasted many people's time, and clearly SJ did not even understand why people were being confused by the main issue of the new rules referring to the time a figure _acts_ as the time of a figure's "move".)

i.e.

new Melee and ITL options list: Do not even list HTH as something you can initiate when not engaged. (i.e. they are sloppily misleading and contradict their own HTH rules)

new ITL HTH section: Identical to Advanced Melee HTH section.

new Melee HTH section: Says to use option b) CHARGE ATTACK moving 1/2 MA is disengaged or option o) if engaged.


However I would also say that I don't think the issues at the link you listed are very hard to sort out (at least, to my own satisfaction) if you use Advanced Melee, i.e.:

* I think AM is clear that you can only initiate HTH if you moved 1/2 MA or less.
* I think when AM says "from the rear" it means side or rear, as old Melee specified.
* I think it's clear that Engagement stops disengaged movement, so there is no question of using it to initiate HTH through a Front hex, and so polearm charge attacks would naturally occur before someone could initiate HTH through the front.
* Back against the wall seems consistent enough to me with the "greater MA" requirement, and to me implies that an unwilling standing fighter with greater or equal MA who has someplace to move away, can avoid being effectively forced into being tackled and rolling on the ground. This point HAS been discussed a few times on the SJG forums, and the idea has been brought up that a house rule might have such a person actually move away from the attempt. Hcobb posted a pretty nice house rule that replaces the 1d6 roll with a few options the defender can take.

PvK

--- fuhrmanator@gmail.com wrote:

From: Cris Fuhrman <fuhrmanator@gmail.com>
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: Re: Melee Movement/Action chart
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 10:08:11 +0100

Thanks for the feedback. I'm working on a new version without the engaged
switch. I agree it adds little value and makes things confusing.

Now, an old question pops up, and I wonder if the new release of
Melee/Wizard (basic) clears it up. Is HTH allowed if you move more than
half your MA? For full context of the discrepancy, see
https://tft.brainiac.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Rules.EnteringHand-to-handCombat

I haven't had time to scan the SJGames forums to see if this was ever
addressed. Cheers,

Cris

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:34 AM Rick <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca> wrote:

> Very good point Peter.
>
> A minor quibble, the chart does not allow you to move 1/2 your MA and
> change your option to defend.  Was that intended?
>
> Warm regards, Rick.
>
> > On 2018Dec 7,, at 00:20, Peter von Kleinsmid <pvk@oz.net> wrote:
> >
> > I think it suffers from collapsing the Movement Phase and the Action
> Phase into one set of decisions, but engaged state can change during both
> phases, and original Wizard and Advanced Melee made it clear that a figure
> can dodge, defend, or drop if they moved 1/2 MA or less.
> >
> > So I would have two sections:
> >
> > One for how far you can move during the movement phase based on whether
> you were engaged or not (a very simple chart).
> >
> > Another for what actions you can take during the action phase, based on
> how far you moved and whether you are engaged or not at the time you act.
> >
> > That way it will be clearer that you can in fact move 1/2 MA and still
> Defend.
> >
> > I would also not require being engaged to Defend in any case, so it's
> clear that Defend is available against 2-hex jabs.
> >
> > And I would not list last-shot missile attacks as if they required you
> not have moved at all.
> >
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