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Re: [Slope: Ch 16] Weapons for pulling you down / off balance.



Hi David,
  My comments are inline in ALL CAPS.

On 2019May 1,, at 18:04, David Bofinger <bofinger.david@gmail.com> wrote:

Thoughts:

* I do like the idea of implementing these kinds of weapons.

* It's a broad category: you can hook a leg to trip someone, hook a body to pull them off a horse, catch a weapon to break or disarm, hook a shield to drag it down.

* Of these categories, "catch a weapon" is the odd one out. Something like a sai (or guisarme?) can do that, but probably not the other jobs. The other jobs probably all get done by the same weapons.

MY RULES DIDN’T CAPTURE “CATCH A WEAPON” (OTHER THAN A 
SHIELD IF YOU COUNT THAT AS A WEAPON).   ANOTHER THING THAT 
MY WEAPONS DON’T CATCH IS AN ENEMY WHO IS “OFF BALANCE” 
BUT NOT ACTUALLY KNOCKED DOWN.


* Abilities like this tend to be useless in TFT if they require an action because regular attacks are quite effective and giving up your regular attack to, say, reduce an enemy's shield protection is just not worth it. In a TFT ruleset with parry response that might be less true. In your rules armour is more effective and hence common, that will make these options more attractive. I'm unclear whether your hooking requires an action or not, if it's a free action then it might get around this problem.

YES, THE INTENTION WAS THAT THESE ACTS TOOK AN ACTION.
YOUR POINT IS A GOOD ONE.  PERHAPS BAKE IN THE IDEA THAT 
YOU CAN HOOK AND MAKE AN ATTACK AT –4 DX.


Fundamentally these actions existed because defences were pretty good and simply whacking people wasn't working. In TFT that generally isn't true, and the best way to make someone lose their balance is to make them bleed out.

SMILES OUT LOUD.

I SUSPECT THAT TFT UNDERESTIMATES ARMOR, BECAUSE WE WANT 
FIGHTS TO LAST 5 MINUTES (IN REAL TIME), AND NOT 20 MINUTES.


A game with more resolution, where you have a more visceral idea of what's happening in a fight, is a nice idea. But it isn't TFT, as it stands. It would be fun to know your enemy managed to parry but is now off-balance, opening him up for the friend on your right to gut him with her gladius. Maybe it would be good to write a more cinematic skirmish game, but it's not obvious TFT is where you'd start. TFT is broad brush.

(About to get anaesthetic so my next few emails may get less coherent...)

--
David

On Thu, 2 May 2019, 10:26 Rick, <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca> wrote:
Hi all, 
 A number of weapons were intended to hook shields, pull enemy off of horses, pull enemy off balance or pull shields out of position.  

 Examples of such weapons are:  The Egyptian Khopesh, Halberd, Pike Ax, Shuang gou (hook sword), Kusari, jabajabba, battle axes, Jutte (or Jitte), Hakapik, Guisarme, and no doubt many of have missed.


I will refer to this class of weapons as ‘hooking weapons’ or ‘hooked weapons'.

Hooking weapons that are pole weapons will simply allow them to have a greater reach, but will other wise behave the same way as other hooking weapons.


I’m thinking of treating these weapons thus:

WEAPONS TABLE:
Each weapon that is hooked, will have a note added to the weapons 
table saying that it is a hooked weapon.  These weapons will do one 
or two points less damage than typical for their ST.



WHO MAY BE PULLED OFF BALANCE:
— If the enemy defends, they are not leaving you an opportunity to 
try to pull them off balance.  You may not try this tactic at all on them.

— If the enemy attacks you, and rolls a to hit number that is evenly 
divisible by 4, they they have offered you an opening.  You may try 
to pull them off balance later that turn.

OPTIONAL RULE: You may hook them next turn as well.

— If your opponent does not attack you, or you attack them first, you 
may try to pull them off balance, but it is harder.  You are at a one die
penalty.



HOW TO PULL SOMEONE OFF BALANCE:
If the enemy has left you an opening (by attacking you and rolling a 
natural 4), then you must make a 3vsDX to hook them.  Otherwise 
you must roll 4vsDX to hook them.

EXCEPTION: Hooking shields is easier, you roll one less die if you 
are just trying to hook a shield.



EFFECTS OF PULLING ENEMIES:
You must have a hooked weapon.  You may try to hook the enemy.  
You must choose ONE following 3 effects:

1 — If they are mounted, they must make a 5vsDX roll or be dismounted.  
This is a 4vsDX if they have Horsemanship, or 3vsDX if they are a 
Master Horseman.

2 — If they have a shield, the shield protection is halved (round down) 
for the rest of the turn.  (Example: A small shield would not protect if it 
is pulled out of position.). This will only help you if you can make two 
attacks per turn, or if you have a friend who is attacking them in the 
same turn.

3 — They must make a saving throw or fall.  This roll is a 4vsDX if you 
are stronger than them, or a 3vsDX if they are the same ST, or a 2vsST 
if they are stronger than you.  If they have Acrobatics talent, then they 
roll one less die than the saving throw listed in the previous sentence.

If they make the roll, your attempt to pull them down is wasted.  If they 
miss by 1 or 2 points, then they are pulled to their knees.  Any greater 
failure will pull them prone.


***

The most complicated thing is remembering to check if the enemies’ to 
hit roll is divisible by 4.  These odds of an opening, means that you will 
get this chance about 25% of the time (which feels about right to me).  
However, if you are awesome, you can try to hook them whenever you 
want.

This tactic is most effective against lower skilled, and low ST figures which 
also feels right.


I would be interested in people’s thoughts on these rules.

Warm regards, Rick.


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