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Re: Weapons for pulling you down / off balance.



Hi Neil,
  Historically, there WERE a fair number of weapons with hooks.  A 
Khopesh in TFT is just a sword, its very noticeable hook is ignored.

  However, you seem to be arguing, that it is not worth while to 
distinguish weapons in this fashion.  "No need to ever build a weapon 
with a hook.  Non-hooked weapons will do the job anyway."

  Or perhaps you are saying that if we are going down this road, we 
want greater expressive power?  (i.e. A jitte can hook weapons but 
not anything else.)

  The reason I bothered with the divide by 4 mechanic (or PVK’s 
extra die roll), was to allow these weapons to have a significant 
enough bonus that it is not simply ignored.  But if that bonus was 
easy to trigger, it would be used always.  (Of course if you are 
awesome, then you can make the tricky maneuvers whenever you 
want.)

  There is an extra dynamic which I like.  The player needs to be alert 
enough to realize that the enemy rolled that 12.  Not only is the 
character having to watch for an opening, the player has to as well.

  (This amuses me.)

  Warm regards, Rick.



On 2019May 1,, at 19:07, raito@raito.com wrote:

House rules are house rules, but...

The historical jitte I've seen could not be used in such a manner. What
hook they have was designed to catch a sword blade, not a body part. And
its hook is placed very inconveniently to hook a shield.

Jeu de la Hache describes many plays in which the opponent is taken down
with a poll ax. All are done with the straight butt end of the haft.

Fiore de Liberi's works also show many such plays. Usually done with a
longsword. But his basis for weaponed combat was wrestling. The sort of
wrestling that breaks bones.

For myself, when fighting with two swords against a shield, I've often
used the pommel of one sword to keep the shield from moving into a line I
wanted to attack through. Another shield works just as well, or the blade
of the word for that matter. It is entirely unnecessary to pull a shield
out of position. Just keeping it from moving works wonders.

As for the use of the hooking tactic being better against lower-skilled
opponents, well duh! Everything easier against them! Personally, I don't
bother with such fancy stuff against those sorts, I just hit them because
that's very easy. In TFT terms, I'll get the first attack anyway due to
higher adjDX.

These maneuvers don't really require specially made weapons.

I'm not sure how this balances. It's probably particular to the campaign.
In mine, it would either be worth the couple points less damage and
everyone would take the hooked weapons, or it wouldn't be worth it and no
one would bother. The only time I could see it being used in the middle
would be by specially trained teams who would have one hooker and the rest
very heavy weapons.

If I were to implement this, instead of the divide by 4 mechanic, I'd
probably allow a hooking maneuver either in the first action after
engagement (if the figure moved first) or any action after the opponent
missed his attack or did not attack (within reason, I suppose there could
be circumstances under which the opponent dfidn't attack but couldn't be
hooked). If he attacked you successfully, then your next action can't be a
hook.

Neil Gilmore
raito@raito.com

On Wed, May 1, 2019 7:26 pm, Rick wrote:
Hi all,
A number of weapons were intended to hook shields, pull enemy off of
horses, pull enemy off balance or pull shields out of position.

Examples of such weapons are:  The Egyptian Khopesh, Halberd, Pike Ax,
Shuang gou (hook sword), Kusari, jabajabba, battle axes, Jutte (or
Jitte), Hakapik, Guisarme, and no doubt many of have missed.


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