Re: Weapons for pulling you down / off balance.

[raito@raito.com]

Hi Rick,

I'm mostly just giving some historical context for the maneuver in
question. But since you asked...

If it were me, I'd say all weapons can hook, but some do it better than
others. Extra die? Modifiers? Not sure there, whatever you like.

I don't like the divide by 4 mechanic, but you do. Seems too complex to me.

And now an anecdote:

Some years ago, I was at a large regional practice. At the end of the
practice, those of the highest rank (there were 9 of us) got in a line.
Everyone else (about 70 of them) got to do a bout against each of us in
order. Many of the lower-ranked complained about having to do 9 bouts in a
row. The higher-ranked had to do 70 in a row.

I did the same thing to the entire first half of the line. Right hand
pommel freezes shield, left hand offside to head. Like clockwork. The guy
next to me said, "I wonder when anyone will notice what you're doing?" and
we had a good laugh until the line moved and we had to go again.

Neil Gilmore
raito@raito.com

On Thu, May 2, 2019 9:21 am, Rick wrote:
> Hi Neil,
> Historically, there WERE a fair number of weapons with hooks.  A
> Khopesh in TFT is just a sword, its very noticeable hook is ignored.
>
>
> However, you seem to be arguing, that it is not worth while to
> distinguish weapons in this fashion.  "No need to ever build a weapon with
> a hook.  Non-hooked weapons will do the job anyway."
>
> Or perhaps you are saying that if we are going down this road, we
> want greater expressive power?  (i.e. A jitte can hook weapons but not
> anything else.)
>
> The reason I bothered with the divide by 4 mechanic (or PVK’s
> extra die roll), was to allow these weapons to have a significant enough
> bonus that it is not simply ignored.  But if that bonus was easy to
> trigger, it would be used always.  (Of course if you are awesome, then you
> can make the tricky maneuvers whenever you want.)
>
> There is an extra dynamic which I like.  The player needs to be alert
> enough to realize that the enemy rolled that 12.  Not only is the character
> having to watch for an opening, the player has to as well.
>
> (This amuses me.)
>
>
> Warm regards, Rick.
>
>
>
>
>> On 2019May 1,, at 19:07, raito@raito.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> House rules are house rules, but...
>>
>>
>> The historical jitte I've seen could not be used in such a manner. What
>>  hook they have was designed to catch a sword blade, not a body part.
>> And
>> its hook is placed very inconveniently to hook a shield.
>>
>> Jeu de la Hache describes many plays in which the opponent is taken
>> down with a poll ax. All are done with the straight butt end of the
>> haft.
>>
>> Fiore de Liberi's works also show many such plays. Usually done with a
>> longsword. But his basis for weaponed combat was wrestling. The sort of
>> wrestling that breaks bones.
>>
>> For myself, when fighting with two swords against a shield, I've often
>> used the pommel of one sword to keep the shield from moving into a line
>> I
>> wanted to attack through. Another shield works just as well, or the
>> blade of the word for that matter. It is entirely unnecessary to pull a
>> shield out of position. Just keeping it from moving works wonders.
>>
>> As for the use of the hooking tactic being better against lower-skilled
>>  opponents, well duh! Everything easier against them! Personally, I
>> don't bother with such fancy stuff against those sorts, I just hit them
>> because that's very easy. In TFT terms, I'll get the first attack anyway
>> due to higher adjDX.
>>
>> These maneuvers don't really require specially made weapons.
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure how this balances. It's probably particular to the
>> campaign. In mine, it would either be worth the couple points less
>> damage and everyone would take the hooked weapons, or it wouldn't be
>> worth it and no one would bother. The only time I could see it being
>> used in the middle would be by specially trained teams who would have
>> one hooker and the rest very heavy weapons.
>>
>> If I were to implement this, instead of the divide by 4 mechanic, I'd
>> probably allow a hooking maneuver either in the first action after
>> engagement (if the figure moved first) or any action after the opponent
>>  missed his attack or did not attack (within reason, I suppose there
>> could be circumstances under which the opponent dfidn't attack but
>> couldn't be hooked). If he attacked you successfully, then your next
>> action can't be a hook.
>>
>> Neil Gilmore
>> raito@raito.com
>>
>> On Wed, May 1, 2019 7:26 pm, Rick wrote:
>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> A number of weapons were intended to hook shields, pull enemy off of
>>>>  horses, pull enemy off balance or pull shields out of position.
>>>>
>>>> Examples of such weapons are:  The Egyptian Khopesh, Halberd, Pike
>>>> Ax,
>>>> Shuang gou (hook sword), Kusari, jabajabba, battle axes, Jutte (or
>>>> Jitte), Hakapik, Guisarme, and no doubt many of have missed.
>>>>
>>
>>
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