RE: (TFT) Skills and the poor Neanderthals

["Gadda, Charles A" <charles.a.gadda@lmco.com>]

Crave pardon, good sir, but I must disagree with your disagree!

Well, I don't HAVE to, I suppose, since I may well be wrong, but here is a
fuller explanation of my logic:

The reason I said what I said is that both verbal and written communication
involve a considerable amount of abstract and symbolic thinking. What is a
"word" (written or verbal)? It is simply a sound or a series of hash marks
on a piece of paper. The thing that converts the noise or random squiggles
into something meaningful is our brain, which interprets that particular
input as a symbol for something else.

For example: I type here the word "mountain" - what do you think of? Do you
see the aforeprinted squiggles only? Or does the image of an acutal mountain
pop in your mind? We could be in the middle of Kansas, yet, because of
language and the implicit abstract reasoning behind it, we can talk about
mountains without having so much as a picture available to us.

Again, the word "mountain" written or spoken, is not by any stretch a
MOUNTAIN - it is simply an abstract communication symbol that allows our
mind to understand the thought being conveyed by the communitcation at hand
- hence my view on the whole topic.

One of Michael Creighton's recent novels involved Neanderthals, and had a
fascinating premise: to wit, it speculated that Neanderthals were
telepathic, which is why their intellectual development was stunted. We, on
the other hand, developed language and by default symbology and abstract
reasoning.

With telepathy, there is little need for symbolism. What is a mountain? I
look at a nearby one and flash the image to you (or perhaps the memory of
such). But if none of us have seen one, then I can't even describe the
concept from second hand accounts, because you probably won't have any
concept of symbolism. Which means that abstract reasoning is sharply
limited.

Thus, complex innovations become difficult or even impossible. If you can't
do abstract thinking, then you can't imagine something complex - your world
is one of "what you see is what there is". You can't invent the bow simply
because you lack the symbologic and abstract thinking required to envision
one. Of course, if you SAW one, you might well be able to replicate it - but
if no one else has invented it, you won't come up with it, because the
concept of imagining something is simply alien to you.

Realise this is off-topic, but I think its kind of fun. In particular, I've
thought of using Creighton's vision of Neanderthals as a possible idea in my
world. Would definately catch the players off guard! While the Neanderthals
would not understand "thoughts" as such, since we usually think in terms of
language (i.e. symbols) they would probably be able to see through our eyes,
and have some idea where you are and what you're doing, etc. (that last came
from the novel, and was an interesting idea).

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Psychohist@aol.com [SMTP:Psychohist@aol.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, July 21, 1999 11:08 AM
> To:	tft@brainiac.com
> Subject:	Re: (TFT) Skills and the poor Neanderthals
> 
> Responding to the comment, regarding neanderthals:
> 
>   I wonder if maybe they didn't have any good examples to learn
>   from...?
> 
> Charles A. Gadda speculates:
> 
>   The only thing I can think of is the tidbit about not being able to
> speak.
>   It could be that their communcation ability was limited, which would
> have
>   limited their abilities of abstract reasoning - hence not being able to
> see
>   what to us is a case of the blindingly obvious.
> 
> I don't agree that communications ability necessarily limits one's ability
> to 
> reason abstractly.  I know lots of smart gnurds that communicate less well
> 
> than the average human.
> 
> I'd suggest that the person who made the original comment was on the right
> 
> track.  What the lack of language would really hamper is learning from 
> others.  One can learn a certain amount by watching an example, but it
> helps 
> a lot if the example can explain what he's doing, and what the student is 
> doing wrong.
> 
> I think it might be difficult to learn how to make a bow just by watching
> a 
> good bowyer.  So even if some smart neanderthal invented the bow, the 
> invention would have died with him - likely without leaving archeological 
> evidence.
> 
> Warren
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