Re: (TFT) How to revive TFT without invoking a Summon Lawyer spell

["Dave Seagraves" <dseagraves@austin.rr.com>]

Brad writes . . .

> Depends on your aim - to get TFT into the public domain or write a new
> game.

   To write a new game.  I guess if you GM long enough you eventually reach
a point when running your campaign based on your own RPG might be easier
than having to look up or guess at someone else's rules.  That's one of the
reasons why I'm taking the trouble.

> It is reprehensible to steal someone else's work, but you must keep in
> mind what the work is in this case.  In a game, the work is the descrip-
> tion of the rules and the examples, illustrations, and fictional context.
> The abstract rules are not part of that work, despite the fact that a
> person spent considerable effort to come up with them.

   I see what you're saying here, but I recognize that it can be just as
much work to design a game as to put it on paper and communicate it to
gamers.  I respect Steve's writing ability, but I respect his ability to
design a game even more.  Specifically, to not give Steve credit for his
/design/ work on /Melee/ is simply wrong.

> There are dice in the character creation process, but you can easily
> factor them out.  There is a downloadable version on the web site that
> contains a subset of the complete rulebook.  The three supplements are
> $9 each (combat, sorcerer, and simply roleplaying).

   I'll have to check out the download, thanks.

> Thus the name.  Interesting.  I assume that character diversity is
> therefore a purely role-playing concept?

   Actually no.  Almost everything -- basic stats, advantages, skills,
powers, whatever -- are treated sort of like optional rules.
   For example, Strength is a "Modifier" (i.e. advantage/disadvantage) that
you can buy for your character.  If a character doesn't have Strength listed
on his character sheet then he's assumed to have a Strength of zero.  Almost
everything with a value of zero is normal human average (whatever that is).
So if a given character has an average Strength, why bother listing it on
the character sheet?  Ideally only numbers which vary from the average are
listed.
   A side-effect is that novice players don't get intimidated by all the
numbers on a character sheet.  They can learn the game bit by bit, while
still being able to take advantage of a wealth of individual rules as they
learn of them.  Essentially if you know how to talk, do simple math, and
roll two dice then you know how to play /Zilch/.
   This opens up the possibility of introducing new players to a campaign in
the middle of a session.  For example:

Newbie: "Say, what are you guys playing?"
GM: "It's a fantasy swords & sorcery campaign.  The characters are all
mercenaries battling a hoard of goblins.  Wanna join in?"
Newbie: "Sure."
GM: ::hands new player a blank sheet of paper:: "Here's your character.
Have a seat.  What do you do?"

Dave Seagraves
Seagraves Mutual Fund   dseagraves@austin.rr.com   1 (512) 255-2760
Current fund value: $1.83 per share.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Thompson" <bthomps@petrodatasource.com>
To: <tft@brainiac.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: (TFT) How to revive TFT without invoking a Summon Lawyer spell


> > Dave Seagraves
> >
> >    Nah . . .  too much trouble.  If I want to go through that much
effort
> > then I might as well design my own RPG.
>
> Depends on your aim - to get TFT into the public domain or write a new
game.
>
> >    I'm not as concerned as much about legalities as much as moralities.
I
> > have no problem with anyone republishing TFT, as long as (a) they
> > don't make
> > any money from it, and (b) they don't take credit for the creation.  To
do
> > otherwise would be /evil./
> >    (It just so happens I have the 5th Edition /Melee/ rulebook
> > sitting on my
> > desk.  Nowhere in the book does it credit Steve as the author!  Instead
on
> > the cover it says, "Revised Edition Edited by Guy W. McLimore, Jr. and
> > Howard Thompson."  Very cheesy Howard, if not outright evil, IMO.)
>
> It is reprehensible to steal someone else's work, but you must keep in
mind
> what the work is in this case.  In a game, the work is the description of
> the rules and the examples, illustrations, and fictional context.  The
> abstract rules are not part of that work, despite the fact that a person
> spent considerable effort to come up with them.  There are lots of things
> you can expend effort on without creating something that you can claim
> exclusive rights to.  To treat them otherwise is not taking the moral high
> ground, it is simply a choice you make.  Please don't consider this a
flame,
> I do respect your choice.
>
> The person who came up with the rules originally may be acknowledged and
> even commended for their efforts, but as you said, if you went to all the
> work to recodify the rules in your own words, you've pretty much done as
> much work as if you had invented the game in the first place.
>
> >    I haven't actually read the rules; just the write-ups for the game on
> > their web site.  Mechanics are important to me, and I was looking for an
> > inkling of what the mechanics of the game are like.  The only clue I
could
> > find was from a picture of one of the weapon cards showing how damage is
> > rolled.  I think someone on the list mentioned that basic attributes are
> > generated randomly (Ack!) which IMO is a step backwards in RPG
technology.
>
> There are dice in the character creation process, but you can easily
factor
> them out.  There is a downloadable version on the web site that contains a
> subset of the complete rulebook.  The three supplements are $9 each
(combat,
> sorcerer, and simply roleplaying).
>
> >    Long after I had half-forgotten this silliness I started creating
> > /Zilch/, which has NO basic attributes!  Ideally the character
> > sheet for an
> > average person is a blank piece of paper.  This makes it easier
> > for a GM to
> > run the game and easier for new players to learn it.
>
> Thus the name.  Interesting.  I assume that character diversity is
therefore
> a purely role-playing concept?
>
> > > [snip] . . .  and this is not legal advice.
> >
> >    You could have fooled me!  8^)
>
> I've been negotiating IP contracts and developing licensing agreements for
> my company's data products for the last couple years.  I'm also active on
> the Open Gaming list, which is often one long legal discussion.  I know
more
> than many, but not enough to stay out of trouble without my lawyer's
advice.
>
> -Brad
>
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