Re: (TFT) Converting Dungeons and Droolers...

[Michael Taylor <MichaelTaylor1@compuserve.com>]

>>>>>>>>Exactly.  This also rules out templates and Classic Traveller
careers, which
>>>>>>>>you said you felt were classes.

You're right. But you can't play a Citizen and start with a Scoutship,
which seems unfair to me. Of course, you can't be a Barbarian and start
with a Scout Ship either, which seems perfectly reasonable to me, so I'll  
   agree there is some grey area there...

I've just never met anyone who actually PREFERRED classes...

>>>>>>Actually, IIRC, every career allows Broadsword skill and gun combat
skill,
>>>>>>and nothing prevents you from learning it later.  Nothing at all. 
See,
>>>>>>no limitations.

Hang on, I'll check...nope, page 103 of the Traveller Book (the Experience
chapter) only allows you to IMPROVE existing skills - not gain new ones. Of
course, I'm sure that changed later. 

>>>>>>Well, you said that you *couldn't* imagine a wizard who wouldn't pick
up a
>>>>>>broadsword and use it if he needed to.  I just did.  Took me less
than a
>>>>>>minute to think of it and write it up.

Okay, point taken. You dont find yourself restricted by the particularities
of the D&D rules. I really do. I *can* imagine that, but since I pretty
much have to when I'm playing D&D there are a whole bunch of other wizard
types that I *can't* play even if I can imagine them because of the rules. 

>>>>>>And now you're changing the subject.
>>>>>>If I were playing 3rd ed, I'd play a wizard who uses a sword.

Didn't mean to. The idea was that D&D only gives you a limited number of
character types influenced by the classes and while you can create more, it
takes alot more work than your imagination. 

By definition, you have learn how to 'work the rules' in order to get a
wizard with a sword. 

Therefore, D&D teaches you to 'work the rules' rather than just allow you
to imagine a wizard character with  a sword. Therefore you aren't taught
how to role-play, your taught that working the rules is the only way to get
what you want out of a game. 

>>>>>>Borrow the 3rd ed PHB and read it.

Why? What could I possibly get from it as a roleplayer? 

>>>>>>Ok.  Here's the situation.  Expert swordsman with 20DEX is locked in
a 
>>>>>>prison cell in only his loincloth.  He whomps a guard with his
bare-hands,
>>>>>>and picks up the axe that he *has no skill with*, because four other
guards
>>>>>>come running.  He still has exactly the same chance to hit with the
axe
>>>>>>that he had with the sword!  Even though he *never* learned how to
use it.

>>>>>>In fact, a merchant who's never picked up a weapon in his life would
be in
>>>>>>the same category if he had a 20 DEX.

>>>>>>Now, you might say that a merchant might not develop a 20 DEX, but if
he
>>>>>>was a merchant who wanted to be a master craftsman, he might.
>>>>>>An example: The best basket-weaver in the world can pick up a
broadsword and
>>>>>>beat most novice guardsmen in a dual, even if he never touched a
sword before
>>>>>>in his life, because he has a 20 DEX (to make sure he's the best
basket-
>>>>>>weaver).

Your question to me about these would be? 

>>>>>>But, it does support my premise that the rule system doesn't impede
anyone's
>>>>>>ability to role-play.  If they want to do it, they can, regardless of
>>>>>>rule system.

Not when you tack on the *anyone* it doesnt. Your saying that no one can
ever be mislead about the nature of role-playing because of the structure
of the rules? Someone who learns how to role-play from Champions players
will learn the same role-playing that someone who's only played Amber will?


Someone who only playes on MUD's or Ultima-on-line is learning the same
role-playing as kids who play cops-and-robbers and gamers who play
Earthdawn? 

>>>>>>I was going to comment on this, but it was starting to get a bit
personal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I really don't like when you belittle my friends, and say that
they're
>>>>>>somehow inferior because they enjoy D&D.

Well, then your taking this way too personally and your also misreading
everything I've written. 

In fact, I thought I'd made a point several times of saying that this
doesn't have anything to do with 'your friends'. I dont know them. If there
the exception, great! 

Because D&D's a lousy rule-system for role-playing doesn't say anything
about your friends. Role-playing is not necessarily *better* than playing
D&D. I just happen to like it better that's all. 

Somepeople think playing Rugby or watching TV is better than playing D&D or
role-playing. That's okay for them to. 

I apologize for anything that may have seemed like a personal attack on
your friends. That wasn't at all what I meant to infer.

Michael 












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