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Re: (TFT) Word value

From: "Anthony Merlock" <amerlock@execpc.com>

Ah, David, David, David.... You make some fairly significant errors in your
analysis.... Given that I'm waiting for Linux to install on my fourth
computer, I figured I'd correct some of your calculations.  I'm sure you'll
appreciate it.
Yes, feedback! It will help whip this little article into shape. Oh, by the way, I like your first sentence. I can see you head shaking back and forth. 


>      In CHAINMAIL a hero was listed as being equal to four heavy horse.



-snip-


Here is your first analytical mistake. If a Hero is defined as being equal
to four heavy horse (which in 1st edition AD&D have 3d8+3 hit points), then


-snip-
I see I need to clarify what was meant by "four heavy horse" in CHAINMAIL. A system for mass minature warfare, the lowest rated unit was a light foot soldier. They have medium and heavy. Horse was another type of unit. Heavy horse was a term used to refer to a plated knight on an amrored horse. As a specific example a dragon was listed as the equivalent of twelve heavy horse. Hit points and levels were not developed until later.
Also, your calculations on the hit dice of a Deities & Demigods hero is also incorrect. I quote, "Unless stated otherwise, hit dice are 8-sided (1-8 hit 
points)."  (Deities & Demigods Cyclopedia, first printing, Copyright 1980


    Oops.  I stand corrected.  Dice eight it is.


>
>      It seems clear that the number value of the word "hero" gets bigger
> over time. That shows me a lack of understanding for their own formulas.
I don't know about that. Even in TFT, a "hero"s number value increases over 
time.  Since my only current character is a wizard (who's been sitting on
the shelf for *way* too long - it sucks not to have any TFT players in the
local area), I can only give as an example the halfing NPC who travelled
with him for a while.  The halfing "hero" increased from 30 points to 33
points during their travels (a 3 point increase in his number value), until
my wizard got tired of his sorry halfing *ss, and booted him down a 50'
shaft (and my GM didn't even give me the XP for the kill.....Damn him! Damn
him to hell!!!!!).


    HAHAHAHAH HA  AHHH HAAAA, RTF LOL.



> It makes me wonder if they weren't just selling bigger numbers in each
> subsequent edition.  I mean, aside from all that artwork.

Well, given that in 2nd and subsequent editions of AD&D, TSR and Wizards of
the Coast have let the word "Hero" go undefined, it seems that this is
unlikely.  Well, the bigger numbers part, not the artwork part.
I'll thank you to leave Wizards of the Coast out of this. I am trying to. There is no use blaming them for the past. They have done nothing but try to make things better. [wry grin]
> The word value of hero has been under examined. A hero as defined by 
> AD&D is a fourth level Fighter.  One should think that it was the use of
the
> word "hero" that lead to the idea of "henchmen" as a game mechanic.  Any
> AD&D character can have charisma.  Charisma usually does not increase
> without the use of wishes.  I find this strange.  The people at TSR seem
to
> have missed the point.

I don't know... Most D&D gamers I know haven't improved in Charisma in the
time I've known them, so E. Gary Gygax was probably basing that on his
personal experience.
Ohhhhhh ho, hahahah. Nice barb. Have you seen Gary Gygax's web site? In particular the guest book. It is filled to the brim with flat out worship by fans. Of course they have never encountered his charisma in person. 



>      I should think that Charisma, or number of followers, is what would
> make a "hero" in AD&D terms.  This would make more sense to me than
inflated
> numbers over time.  TFT specifically lists Charisma(cost 2) and New
> Followers(cost 2) as two separate talents.  Neither one is listed as an
> attribute like in D&D.  Also Charisma(2) is listed as a prerequisite of
New
> Followers(2). I take this to be intentional on Steve Jackson's part. To 
> explain in a more logical set of rules how his system is different from
D&D.
>   Steve Jackson's work shows a greater awareness of word value.
> The word value of "hero" in TFT means anything that is not a Wizard. 
> Even a thief or assassin is a type of hero.

Assuming, of course, that the thief or assassin is not a wizard.  Also, a
slime is not a hero, and neither is an Uncle Teeth, or a dragon.
You got me here. I was intentionaly avoiding too much detail on the word value of "hero" in TFT for the sake of brevity. But I ask you, if 4 wishes were used on a slim's IQ, couldn't it also learn New Followers? 



> A wizard is not.  A hero has to
> spend four points of IQ if they wish to have followers.  A Wizard is
> required to spend eight points of IQ if they wish to have followers.

In 1st edition AD&D, a Hero (a 4th level fighter) may not have followers.
In 1st edition AD&D, a Superhero (an 8th level fighter) still may not have
followers - they magically appear when the Superhero has murdered and robbed 
enough "monsters" to be promoted to "Lord".
What about the number of follwers listed on the Charisma table. I beleive the followers who magicaly appear at the "Lord" level, are mostly zero level men at arms to man the castle and stay home while the "Lord" is off on adventure. 

-jump ahead----



Anyway, gotta go.  Time for my pills.



    Thank you.

    David Michael Grouchy II
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