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(TFT) Actual numbers on digging.

Thanks Charles!
   I really appreciate the dose of reality that
you wake us 'I can guess really well guys' up 



On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 19:15, Charles Gadda wrote:
> > > From: Mark Tapley <mtapley@swri.edu>
> >
> > > Am I reading this that it takes 100 ST of damage to
> > > advance the whole face of a tunnel (say 1 m x 2 m )
> > > one cm? That's removing, um... 2 million cc's of
> > > stone.
> >
> > Ummmm ... I get 20,000cc.
> Per ITL, the basic tunneling rate in "average" stone is 2cm/per hour per
> point of ST. Thus, a 10 ST man will remove 20cm x 100cm x 200cm=400,000cc or
> .5232 cubic yards
> >From War Department manual TR 195-25 Fortification "Protected Shelters"
> dated 1 Dec 1927:
> a. Inclines and passages:
> 1 man picking
> 1 man filling sandbags
> 1 man carrying for each 10 feet of entrance
> 1 relief
> =0.6 cubic yards per hour (but this is in *soil* not rock!)
> Obviously, TFT is off, but perhaps not horribly so. I would suggest that the
> rate be reduced to 1 cm/per point ST for relatively soft rock; doubled for
> soil; and perhaps some fraction thereof for harder rock. And this would be
> with at least one additional man clearing spoilage; perhaps more depending
> on circumstances.
> Of course, much depends on what you are trying to mine through - a single
> layer brick wall is relatively easy but the same bricks 20 layers deep will
> present quite a challenge.
> > > No, tunneling (with picks) isn't too easy. Remember .
> > > It takes a while. Months, even for just a few rooms.
> >
> > I don't think I agree with this.  I think skilled
> > tunnellers can probably clear a respectable area in a
> > surprisingly short amount of time.  Tunnellers would be
> > more likely to cut the stone into the largest size
> > blocks that they can carry away instead of smashing it
> > to pieces.
> Just gonna "cut" the stone,eh? I doubt its that simple - they probably will
> just chip chunks of it away, as best they can. There is nothing neat and
> tidy about tunneling.
> > If there's wood available, they can heat the stone to amplify cracks.
> Or use a Fire spell.
> And tunnels rarely go
> > through homogenious material.  And unless you're deadset
> > on a floorplan, you can follow fissures in the rock or
> > better yet, natural caves.
> When available, absolutely.
> As for spell use, I think the rules are wrong, here. It's not as if a Magic
> Fist or even a lighting bolt is just going to disingtegrate and vapourise
> the rock - at the least someone is going to have to remove the spoilage.
> Personally, I don't think they would be very effective at all - especially
> fireball given that it is more of an instantaneous flash rather than a
> sustained heat. Here is what I would suggest:
> Each *die* of Lighting damage removes 1cm of rock (and requires 2 minutes/cm
> to remove spoilage). (BTW, this represents, on average, a 1:35 reduction in
> mining rate) Each die of Magic Fist removes 1/2cm of rock, with same
> spoilage removal requirements. A Wizard's Wrath removes 1.5cm of rock per
> die (assuming lighting bolt form).
> This should lower the rate to a more believable level, while still making it
> a viable strategy.
> For the slower approach, the Fire spell might help, as well. In this case it
> enhances the miner's ability to cut stone - each Fire spell will increase
> the miner's effective ST by 1. All else in terms of time remains the same.
> Not sure how to treat multi-hex fires, though.
> =====
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