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Re: (TFT) First attacks in HTH

I think the more I read, the more I get confused.

When attacker moves one, shifts, etc..., as in AM, onto the enemy's hex with the intent of initiating HTH, does he get to "attack" the same turn in his action. The wording seems to state that "initiating" HTH is an attack, but describes an action where the disengaged attacker moves onto the enemy hex and attacks in combat. If intitiating HTH, and giving the defender the defense roll, constituted his "attack", the discussion of attacking in combat doesn't make much sense.

IIRC, we always played that an attacker would move into the hex in order to initiate HTH. If the results of the defender's roll leaves the combatants in HTH (no 5 or 6) then the attacker would attack based on adjDX and the defender would also attack via adjDX. The move initiates the HTH unless countered by the defender; combat follows.
It sounds like most folks play it differently.

One thing we added to the rules gave UC talents influence over the defender's die roll similar to the way it is used in "pinning a foe". The difference between UC talents allows the "winner" to modify the defenders die as they choose. This would allow a UC 3 guy a chance (UC 4+ a done deal) to avoid HTH entirely when it is initiated by someone untrained in unarmed combat. Likewise, if an attacker with UC 2 or higher wants to initiate HTH against an untrained person, they would be able to do so.

Your thoughts?


----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Fuhrman" <fuhrman8or@yahoo.com>
To: <tft@brainiac.com>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: (TFT) First attacks in HTH

--- pvk@oz.net wrote:
I note too that even if you allow HTH initiation during movement,
it would logically require an extra movement point to get into
the target's hex, so the range is down to 1/2 MA, including the
target hex, and without entering an enemy front hex, which is
getting harder to do. However I think in any case it works best
to make it only be an action done in DX order after all movement,
for the reasons we've been over a few times now.

Advanced Melee has another piece of the puzzle, under Hand-to-hand

"When a figure is attacked HTH, it immediately (that is, still in the
movement phase) rolls one die to determine its defense against the
HTH attack as follows..."

With this last gem, I'm still leaning towards the
initiated-during-movement ruling on HTH. But we should try some real
scenarios to see where it doesn't make sense.

It's curious you speak of differences in Melee rule sets. The (c)
1977 version of Melee (with the Gargoyle on the cover, painted with
watercolors) is in some ways closer to the Advanced Melee rules, at
least with respect to HTH, than the revised 5th edition (c) 1981. In
other ways, the older one seems further away from AM. Metagaming
clearly had poor "version control" practices.

Here are the exact texts on HTH combat from each edition:

1977 edition:
    A figure may move ONTO an enemy figure's hex, initiating HTH
combat, if (a) the enemy has his back to the wall, or is lying down,
prone, or kneeling, or (b) the enemy has a lower MA, or (c) the
attacker comes in from the rear, or (d) the enemy agrees to HTH
combat. Initiating HTH combat is considered an attack.
    A disengaged figure picks option (b) to initiate HTH combat; he
moves onto the nemy's hex during movement and attacks during combat.
An engaged figure picks option (m), stands still or shifts, and
enters an enemy hex and attacks during COMBAT.

[note: action (b) is standard charge attack (up to 1/2 MA), whereas
action (m) is ATTEMPT HAND-TO-HAND ATTACK, which states "During the
movement phase, the figure stands still or shifts; when its turn to
attack comes, it moves onto the hex of the adjacent enemy, and
attempts to hit with bare hands or (if it was ready) its dagger." The
conditons a-d are clearer than the text in the 1981 version and are
identical to AM. However, as PvK noted, option (m) gives a move
during movement and a move into HTH during the attack. This seems
less clear.]

1981 edition:
    A figure may move onto an enemy figures hex, initiating HTH
combat, if the enemy has his back to a wall, is lying down, is prone,
is kneeling, has a lower MA, agrees to HTH combat or is attacked
through his side or rear hex. Initiating HTH combat is considered an
    A Disengaged figure picks action (a) to initiate HTH combat,
moving onto the enemys hex during movement and attacking during
combat. An Engaged figure picks action (k), entering the enemys hex
AND attacking during combat.

[note: action (a) is move more than half of its MA and take no other
action (CLEARLY an error introduced in the 1981 revision), whereas
action (k) is ATTEMPT HTH COMBAT, which states "Move into the hex of
any adjacent enemy and attempt to hit with bare hands or ready
dagger. Any non-dagger ready weapons are dropped. (See HAND-TO-HAND

Enough legal anthropology for a Friday night :-)

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