RE: (TFT) Is TFT a role playing or board game?

["George Dew" <gdew@ResponseNetworking.com>]

Just a quick statement about programmed adventures (PA). (BTW, Chris'
adventure, "Wolves on the Rhine," published by Dark City Games is
excellent).

Chris is right that PAs are limiting.  

Unfortunately, there's not really much that we can do about it. 

PAs offer individuals the ability to play adventures either by just reading
through, or by playing solitaire. This is better than nothing at all.

For groups, programmed adventures offer people the opportunity to play
through adventures without having to do the massive amount of background
work required to write an interesting campaign. Once you have this baseline,
the GM can expound freely on what the adventurers can do, provided the GM
has an understanding of the PA.

I guess it's just that there are always trade-offs in the way you do things.
So although PAs are limiting, they are wonderful to have around.

BTW Chris, there's a lot of people asking for your sequel.




 

-----Original Message-----
From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On Behalf Of
Christopher Brandon
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:31
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: RE: (TFT) Is TFT a role playing or board game?

Sorry Mr. Jackson, despite my earlier protestations to avoid posting, the
thoughtful posts by Ray and others enticed me to return.

First, I have zero issues with TFT used as an RPG system however one defines
that personally. I was fortunate enough to have an adventure published by
DCG so clearly I think the base system is great and I do use it in my own
playing (although in my very tweaked homebrewed rules set).

Part of my Tactical RPG versus Story telling RPG thoughts stem from writing
adventures in the solitaire/ programmed format for Dark City.
(great guys & great adventures!) I find writing in this format constricting
and to be honest limiting.  Let me take a moment from a recent non
programmed adventure to illustrate:

You arrive in town with 6 silver pieces each, an empty stomach, and a hunger
for adventure.  Two characters are in a port town and need money to get
passage to an island where an ancient tomb is said to be.  They pool their
cash, haggle, and buy a very small bag of fine tobacco.  They then go deeper
into town trying to sell it as part of a recently arrived select cargo.
They go through town and find a buyer.  They set up a meet with the buyer at
their "warehouse."  Their warehouse is actually one they track down, break
into, KO the guards, then meet the merchant, make the sale, and then try to
sneak out of town with the cash.  The try to bribe the guards to let them
out, then have to fight the guards to keep the coin. They end up scattering
the cash to end the fight. Each ends up with 50 silver for all the trouble,
two different angry merchant's after them, and the town guard looking for
them while they are still trapped in the city.

That little interlude is about 5 hours worth of role playing with reactions,
fast talking, hunting through tobacco shops, hunting to find a warehouse
with tobacco in it, combat and all sorts of shenanigans.  If I were to try
and program that one night adventure out, it would easily be 40-50 pages
with all sorts of yes/no/maybe threads.  Would it be fun for the player?
Mine thought so, but would it be fun for the writer...for myself I dread the
thought.  

Why? 2 reasons: First because the programmed adventure relies on die rolls
for success versus the player's ability to try and "sell" the GM what they
are attempting and act it out.  Second, because I have to write out every
possible out come from every decision or failed die roll even though maybe
half to 1/3 will actually be experienced in play.
There were only two combats in the entire adventure, and really only one was
life threatening.  So maybe my issue is really one of programmed adventures.
The format is roll-playing heavy decision tree, and not really role-playing
where how you "act" has much more influence then a binary success/fail die
roll format.

Example:
You enter the dry goods shop.  The smell of spices and incense swirl in the
stained glass colored air. A large, muscled fellow off to the left holding a
staff watches you suspiciously as you enter.  Deep brightly colored carpets
muffle the sound of your boots on the floor; though the occasional squeak of
wood under the carpets tells of a shop that has stood for quite some time.
The pinch faced, corpulent, black bearded fellow behind a tapestry covered
counter smiles as he looks up. Then you see the corners of his smile falter
and his eyes darken when he eyes your shabby dress.  "Yes?" He asks
imperiously.  

In a role playing adventure the characters can now throw out a whole host of
different responses.  Not so in a programmed adventure.  Also would this
sort of interaction be any fun in a programmed adventure?
Especially if written without any die rolls or interaction beyond "If you
say...go to XX" over and over and over for 95% of the tale? I am going to
guess...not so much.  Yet at the table it was a hell of a lot of fun.

All of that (sorry so long) to say maybe the combat centric nature of
adventures published to support TFT may be what creates in my mind a sense
of limits to the system as originally written.  Thoughts?

Cheers!
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On Behalf Of
Ray Rangel
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:09 AM
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: (TFT) Is TFT a role playing or board game?

The recent conversation has got me musing over what a role playing game
really is. But, before I begin, please understand that these are my own
thoughts and mental meanderings and nothing more. With that said...

I've been playing, first strategic board games, then tabletop historical
miniatures games, and in the last few years various RPGs, since I was
eighteen. That's about thirty-five years. The one universal element that
I've found in all of those years of gaming is that everyone role plays.
The
miniatures gamer oversees the deployment and movement of his vast Napoleonic
army and soon take on the role of Marshall Ney, Davout, or Bonaparte
himself. Many is the miniature or paper battle that has been fought on the
border of Natal and Zululand where the players have assumed the role of the
stiff upper lipped Victorian officer or the proud brave Zulu prince fighting
for their lives at Rourke's Drift.

Yet we generally don't consider these role playing games. Why not? I think
that it is question of game design and intent rather than how is a game is
actually used. The miniatures rules or board game focus is on the mechanics
of play on the tabletop or board. The definitions and rules provided apply
to movement, combat, and morale of the playing pieces (whether cardboard
chits or miniature soldiers). Any role playing is left up to the players and
their understanding of historical (or fictional) personalities. The
objective in the miniatures or board game is to win.

Of course there are role playing games (or roleplaying, as it has become one
word in the industry and gaming community and RPG for short). These games
are specifically designed to provide the players a framework on which to
build a character or characters of which they assume the roles and act
accordingly. The objective of the RPG is to assume the guise of a character
and to play.

Of course, these descriptions represent the poles. There are an infinite
number of variation between them with many games borrowing elements from the
other in varying degrees. In my opinion, TFT is pretty darn close to the
equator. It, obviously, has strong elements of board gaming--it also has
strong elements of role playing games. I suppose this is why it is so easy
to have contention when talking about TFT. In any given situation or rules
discussion, one must first determine whether the correspondents are viewing
the topic from one pole, the other, pole or the same pole. This is can be
very difficult, in my opinion, because TFT lies on the midpoint and, thus
both points of view--while different--are valid.

Anyhow...I hope you all will excuse my ramblings on this quite Sunday
morning. My intent is not to convince anyone of anything; rather to simply
talk about my personal outlook and thoughts on TFT as happy medium between a
board game and a role playing game.

 
Ray Rangel
ray.rangel@cox.net
http://xraysvision.blogspot.com/
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