RE: (TFT) Is TFT a role playing or board game?

[Ray Rangel <ray.rangel@cox.net>]

Based on a couple of DCG games WotR, being one of them, I bought the whole of their current offerings. They are inexpensive and fun. Experience tells me that products like these are a labor of love. As such, they are only available as long as someone is there to publish them. The lesson is: buy them while you can! So I did.

Unfortunately, my time is limited between work, miniatures gaming/painting and RPGs. Somewhere in there is the mundane stuff like eating sleeping and reading and watching the occational hour of TV or a movie. But, I have them all and will eventually play them all.

Thanks for the complement on the site. Blogging is new to me and so I haven;t really developed the discipline to update it regularly yet...I'm working on that though.

---- Christopher Brandon <brandon@pokemon-seattle.com> wrote: 
> Thanks Ray!  George did send me a link to your site, and I appreciate your kind words.  The site is great...looking forward to an update to the site!
> 
> I certainly hope the next adventure of the 20th legion is even better!  If you have not tried one of their Sci-fi adventures yet, you really should-DCG has yet to put out a clinker they are all great!
> 
> Cheers!
> Chris
> Pokimon USA
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On Behalf Of Ray Rangel
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:46 PM
> To: tft@brainiac.com
> Cc: George Dew
> Subject: RE: (TFT) Is TFT a role playing or board game?
> 
> I'm certianly one of the ones looking for a sequel! Chris, see my blog. I have pix of my first attempt a running through WotR.
> 
> ---- George Dew <gdew@ResponseNetworking.com> wrote: 
> > Just a quick statement about programmed adventures (PA). (BTW, Chris'
> > adventure, "Wolves on the Rhine," published by Dark City Games is
> > excellent).
> > 
> > Chris is right that PAs are limiting.  
> > 
> > Unfortunately, there's not really much that we can do about it. 
> > 
> > PAs offer individuals the ability to play adventures either by just reading
> > through, or by playing solitaire. This is better than nothing at all.
> > 
> > For groups, programmed adventures offer people the opportunity to play
> > through adventures without having to do the massive amount of background
> > work required to write an interesting campaign. Once you have this baseline,
> > the GM can expound freely on what the adventurers can do, provided the GM
> > has an understanding of the PA.
> > 
> > I guess it's just that there are always trade-offs in the way you do things.
> > So although PAs are limiting, they are wonderful to have around.
> > 
> > BTW Chris, there's a lot of people asking for your sequel.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On Behalf Of
> > Christopher Brandon
> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:31
> > To: tft@brainiac.com
> > Subject: RE: (TFT) Is TFT a role playing or board game?
> > 
> > Sorry Mr. Jackson, despite my earlier protestations to avoid posting, the
> > thoughtful posts by Ray and others enticed me to return.
> > 
> > First, I have zero issues with TFT used as an RPG system however one defines
> > that personally. I was fortunate enough to have an adventure published by
> > DCG so clearly I think the base system is great and I do use it in my own
> > playing (although in my very tweaked homebrewed rules set).
> > 
> > Part of my Tactical RPG versus Story telling RPG thoughts stem from writing
> > adventures in the solitaire/ programmed format for Dark City.
> > (great guys & great adventures!) I find writing in this format constricting
> > and to be honest limiting.  Let me take a moment from a recent non
> > programmed adventure to illustrate:
> > 
> > You arrive in town with 6 silver pieces each, an empty stomach, and a hunger
> > for adventure.  Two characters are in a port town and need money to get
> > passage to an island where an ancient tomb is said to be.  They pool their
> > cash, haggle, and buy a very small bag of fine tobacco.  They then go deeper
> > into town trying to sell it as part of a recently arrived select cargo.
> > They go through town and find a buyer.  They set up a meet with the buyer at
> > their "warehouse."  Their warehouse is actually one they track down, break
> > into, KO the guards, then meet the merchant, make the sale, and then try to
> > sneak out of town with the cash.  The try to bribe the guards to let them
> > out, then have to fight the guards to keep the coin. They end up scattering
> > the cash to end the fight. Each ends up with 50 silver for all the trouble,
> > two different angry merchant's after them, and the town guard looking for
> > them while they are still trapped in the city.
> > 
> > That little interlude is about 5 hours worth of role playing with reactions,
> > fast talking, hunting through tobacco shops, hunting to find a warehouse
> > with tobacco in it, combat and all sorts of shenanigans.  If I were to try
> > and program that one night adventure out, it would easily be 40-50 pages
> > with all sorts of yes/no/maybe threads.  Would it be fun for the player?
> > Mine thought so, but would it be fun for the writer...for myself I dread the
> > thought.  
> > 
> > Why? 2 reasons: First because the programmed adventure relies on die rolls
> > for success versus the player's ability to try and "sell" the GM what they
> > are attempting and act it out.  Second, because I have to write out every
> > possible out come from every decision or failed die roll even though maybe
> > half to 1/3 will actually be experienced in play.
> > There were only two combats in the entire adventure, and really only one was
> > life threatening.  So maybe my issue is really one of programmed adventures.
> > The format is roll-playing heavy decision tree, and not really role-playing
> > where how you "act" has much more influence then a binary success/fail die
> > roll format.
> > 
> > Example:
> > You enter the dry goods shop.  The smell of spices and incense swirl in the
> > stained glass colored air. A large, muscled fellow off to the left holding a
> > staff watches you suspiciously as you enter.  Deep brightly colored carpets
> > muffle the sound of your boots on the floor; though the occasional squeak of
> > wood under the carpets tells of a shop that has stood for quite some time.
> > The pinch faced, corpulent, black bearded fellow behind a tapestry covered
> > counter smiles as he looks up. Then you see the corners of his smile falter
> > and his eyes darken when he eyes your shabby dress.  "Yes?" He asks
> > imperiously.  
> > 
> > In a role playing adventure the characters can now throw out a whole host of
> > different responses.  Not so in a programmed adventure.  Also would this
> > sort of interaction be any fun in a programmed adventure?
> > Especially if written without any die rolls or interaction beyond "If you
> > say...go to XX" over and over and over for 95% of the tale? I am going to
> > guess...not so much.  Yet at the table it was a hell of a lot of fun.
> > 
> > All of that (sorry so long) to say maybe the combat centric nature of
> > adventures published to support TFT may be what creates in my mind a sense
> > of limits to the system as originally written.  Thoughts?
> > 
> > Cheers!
> > Chris
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On Behalf Of
> > Ray Rangel
> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:09 AM
> > To: tft@brainiac.com
> > Subject: (TFT) Is TFT a role playing or board game?
> > 
> > The recent conversation has got me musing over what a role playing game
> > really is. But, before I begin, please understand that these are my own
> > thoughts and mental meanderings and nothing more. With that said...
> > 
> > I've been playing, first strategic board games, then tabletop historical
> > miniatures games, and in the last few years various RPGs, since I was
> > eighteen. That's about thirty-five years. The one universal element that
> > I've found in all of those years of gaming is that everyone role plays.
> > The
> > miniatures gamer oversees the deployment and movement of his vast Napoleonic
> > army and soon take on the role of Marshall Ney, Davout, or Bonaparte
> > himself. Many is the miniature or paper battle that has been fought on the
> > border of Natal and Zululand where the players have assumed the role of the
> > stiff upper lipped Victorian officer or the proud brave Zulu prince fighting
> > for their lives at Rourke's Drift.
> > 
> > Yet we generally don't consider these role playing games. Why not? I think
> > that it is question of game design and intent rather than how is a game is
> > actually used. The miniatures rules or board game focus is on the mechanics
> > of play on the tabletop or board. The definitions and rules provided apply
> > to movement, combat, and morale of the playing pieces (whether cardboard
> > chits or miniature soldiers). Any role playing is left up to the players and
> > their understanding of historical (or fictional) personalities. The
> > objective in the miniatures or board game is to win.
> > 
> > Of course there are role playing games (or roleplaying, as it has become one
> > word in the industry and gaming community and RPG for short). These games
> > are specifically designed to provide the players a framework on which to
> > build a character or characters of which they assume the roles and act
> > accordingly. The objective of the RPG is to assume the guise of a character
> > and to play.
> > 
> > Of course, these descriptions represent the poles. There are an infinite
> > number of variation between them with many games borrowing elements from the
> > other in varying degrees. In my opinion, TFT is pretty darn close to the
> > equator. It, obviously, has strong elements of board gaming--it also has
> > strong elements of role playing games. I suppose this is why it is so easy
> > to have contention when talking about TFT. In any given situation or rules
> > discussion, one must first determine whether the correspondents are viewing
> > the topic from one pole, the other, pole or the same pole. This is can be
> > very difficult, in my opinion, because TFT lies on the midpoint and, thus
> > both points of view--while different--are valid.
> > 
> > Anyhow...I hope you all will excuse my ramblings on this quite Sunday
> > morning. My intent is not to convince anyone of anything; rather to simply
> > talk about my personal outlook and thoughts on TFT as happy medium between a
> > board game and a role playing game.
> > 
> >  
> > Ray Rangel
> > ray.rangel@cox.net
> > http://xraysvision.blogspot.com/
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> --
> 
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