Re: (TFT) TRAMPLE Questions

[Sgt Hulka <hulkasgt@yahoo.com>]

I think you're right. The key phrase being, as you point out: "A multi-hex
figure may push back small figures either at the end of its regular move (even
if that move engaged it with them) or by shifting into them while engaged."
That seems pretty clear.
 
Which, in turn, completely screws up the Advanced Melee rules for Pikes.
The author (Steve Jackson, presumably) goes to great trouble creating a
"special case" for Pikes in order to specifically counter cavalry. And yet the
above completely hamstrings them. Since knocking figures over happens during
the movement phase, it doesn't really matter whether Pikes attack first or
last in the round -- if the figure is knocked over his attack is negated,
anyway. Although, now that I'm looking at Pikes, they only have a Strength
requirement of 12. So a 32 point starting warrior could have a Dex of 12,
which gives it pretty good odds of "saving" against the trample. So maybe this
isn't a complete screw up in the rules, after all.
 
Apart from the issue with Pikes I describe above, I'm not sure how big an
effect it has on the balance of mounted versus foot. If you've got a lance,
you still can't attack a figure you're trampling (since it's no longer in
front of your horse). So if you charge, you kind of have a decision to
make...do you attack with your lance, stopping short of the trample in order
to gain the 6+2 damage, or do you go through with the trample, potentially
protecting yourself and your mount from the counter-attack, but running the
risk of the figure "saving", sliding over to another hex that is no longer
"directly" in front of you and your mount, and counter-attacking while now
immune to your lance.
 
As for your last question, I think you accurately point out an ambiguity in
the rules. Technically, the pikeman/polearm-man has "moved". Does that mean
it's no longer receiving a charge? One could probably argue that it does. But
that really shifts the balance of power completely in favor of the charging
horseman, which I don't think is the intent of the rule *at all*. So I would
rule that even if a figure is "pushed" into a different hex it is considered
to have "stood still". Otherwise there is literally no way a pikeman or
spearman could ever receive a charge.
 
Lastly, I remember reading somewhere that a 2-hex figure is normally treated
as a 1-hex figure or something like that, and the horse is a special case only
when moving more than 8 hexes during its movement phase. I'm not currently
able to find where that was, but does that mean a horse can't trample unless
it's moved more than 8 hexes? For some reason I think it can still trample,
because it's a "multi-hex" figure, but that its engagement rules are the same
as a 1-hex figure. But like I said, I can't currently find that rule.

--- On Tue, 7/15/08, John <johnnyboytmm@juno.com> wrote:

From: John <johnnyboytmm@juno.com>
Subject: Re: (TFT) TRAMPLE Questions
To: tft@brainiac.com
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 2:40 AM

----------- Sgt Hulka <hulkasgt@yahoo.com> wrote:---------------------
Now, what you might be thinking about is that the pike, as a special case,
goes first *regardless* of adjusted dex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

That is exactly what I was thinking of. My old GM just extended that isolated
case to the lance as well.

I knew I should have checked the rules :-)  Your application of the polearm
rules are precisely as written in AM.



One other note - now that I have checked in AM, is that the mounted rider
(like
all moving multihex figures) almost always has the opportunity to trample one
hex figures, even on the turn they become engaged.

At least that is how I read the rules on page 4 of AM.  Last sentence under
MOVEMENT OF MULTIHEX FIGURES.

"It does have to stop as  soon as it occupies two at once, thus becoming
engaged - and even then, it is allowed to move one more hex and push the
small
figures back - see below.

And in the middle of MOVING ONTO OTHER FIGURES - from the same page

"A multihex figure may push back small figures either aqt the end of its
regular move (even if that move engaged it with them)or by shifting onto them
while engaged.

Unless the small figure has no empty adjacent hex into which to be pushed, in
which case a larger figure cannot move onto them and push them back.

So you need a tightly packed formation, or footmen with backs against a wall,
in order to engage a charging knight without getting potentially trampled.

So while two halberdiers may well be able to stop a knight with their
polearms,
first they have to save vs trample (unless they are against a wall or a wall
of
other footmen, etc.

Which raises a question about your polearm example.  Say it is just a lone
footmen in the open, who sets to recieve a charge, and the knight moves onto
him as part of his normal move,the footman saves and is pushed back a hex.

Even though he moved back, does he still get the bonus of having set to
recieve
a charge?  I think the answer is yes, because otherwise he is toast, but I
had
never considered it before this e-mail.

John

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