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Re: (TFT) Energy, units, cautionary notes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Tapley"
At 3:07 -0400 3/26/10, Jay wrote:
Dynamite ~20,000fps or ~3,636 ST
Jay, I have trouble with your choice of units here.
Me too ;-)
Converting a "ST" to a speed (feet per second) just doesn't seem
consistent. Put another way, the speed has to be connected with a
mass to mean anything in terms of either energy or momentum. A single
atom at 20,000 fps is negligible, whereas a locomotive at that speed
would be almost thermonuclear.
Right, explosives are rather tricky and Jay's still pretty vague.
Vagueness is an occupational hazzard as I'm afraid as I have almost no idea
what a player might try to blow up.
Agreed! 13,500mph+ is around fifty thousand times slower than light. Not
much for an atom but one heck of a trainwreck.
My first assumption here is that the mass in question is the mass of the
explosive itself.
x weight of "generic dynamite" explodes at 20,000fps
My next assumption is that the explosion is (basicly, I know the stick is a
line) spherical.
Lay that stick on the ground and about half the force is directing more or
less into the ground.
It may help to know here that a rough average for the surface area of a
human is about 16 feet, the same area as a square hex, so the roughly half a
hex silhouette presented by a human (1 hex for giant (?) 1/4 hex for
halfling (?)) should prove useful in calling how much of the force actually
presents itself across the Figure.
Also, the diameter of a ring of hexes radiating from a central hex is
actually a pretty simple count (+6 per additional ring out from center hex),
I most deffently do not intend explosives to do over 3500 ST of damage but
rather look at figures like that from an encumberance pov, as in "how much x
can be moved how far by 3500 ST (applied in 1 turn)?"
I would be happier (not completely happy) connecting "ST" to
either momentum or (kinetic) energy, since to at least some
approximation, strength allows you to pack momentum and energy into a
tool or projectile (during a throw, or a swing).
1pt ST = 5.5lbs @ 1fps (5.5 pounds is about 2.5kg)
Dividing down I'm suggesting that 1pt of ST can throw a 5oz baseball at
about 5fps meaning Joe Average ought to be throwing at about 50fps from
shere brute force. (no kenetic linking of motion, etc. to add velocity ah la
Talents)
No human Figure may move faster than 200fps w/o assistance mechanical or
magical reguardless of physique, training or tallent.
I would be happiest connecting "ST" to *power* (Watts), or spelled out,
Okay, how about this?
"let's imagine that a road crew member is shoveling dirt. Each shovel-full
weighs 13> pounds. Sure, that's weight, but did you know that it is also
force? Now, our crew member deposits each load of dirt onto a heap about 4
feet away (about one hex) from where he is digging. The 4 feet is the
distance. Now we have two of the three parts. Combined, the force and
distance constitute 55 ft-lbs of work. Work is going on, which is no
surprise to the sweating workman! Now let's insert the third ingredient,
time. It takes our worker one second to do each shovel-full -- that's our
time element, giving us 55 ft-lbs per second. Now we have all three
ingredients -- force, distance, and time, and tada! -- we have power."
55 ft-lbs per second is 10 ST and 1 ST is 1/100th of 1hp.
1 horsepower = 745.699872 watts
1pt ST is around 7.5 watts
At 3:07 -0400 3/26/10, TFT Digest wrote:
"It is estimated that the human body reaches 99% of its low-level terminal
velocity after falling 573m 1880ft
... at normal
atmospheric pressure and in a random posture."
...but of course, by the time they have fallen 1880 ft,
atmospheric pressure has changed, increasing the density and reducing
terminal velocity, so it's more complicated than just an asymptote.
Drag = 1/2 (density) (velocity)^2 (area) (Coefficient of Drag)
<BIG grin!>
Agreed! And this brings us to a hole in the above junk about hp.
5.5lbs @ 1fps
2.25lbs @ 2fps
1.125lbs (call it 18oz) @ 3fps
9oz @ 4fps
4.5oz @ 5fps
2.25oz @ 6fps
1.125oz @ 7fps
0.5625oz @ 8fps
0.28125oz @ 9fps
0.140625oz (an 8th of an ounce is 0.125oz) @ 10fps
My problem here is that weights of less than an ounce are gonna exceed my
200fps limit (~8th of an ounce @ 10fps * 30 ST = 300fps)
I think the atmosphere is the answer here and describing it in terms of air
resistance means that Dalkowski on the Moon is gonna be almost as impressive
as that above mentioned trainwreck!
If this goes into space, atmospheres are gonna be important... quite
frankly, I doubt 60ish fps would even make it across the plate.
Have you ever heard of a 1 second long pitch?
At 3:07 -0400 3/26/10, TFT Digest wrote:
So it's all about the energy huh?
Ooooooookay.
In a lot of ways it is.
On very short time scales, *momentum* (mass times velocity)
is also important, but friction erases that pretty fast for most
medieval applications.
"All praise of tool-making and tool-useing that has been mistakenly applied
to man's early development becomes justified from Neolithic times onward,
and should even be magnified in evaluating the later achievements of
handicraft. The maker and the object reacted upon the other. Until modern
times, apart from the esoteric knowledge of the priests, philosophers and
astronomers, the greater part of human thought and imagination flowed
through the hands."
L Mumford in Technics-...
Alot of animal legs too but I agree with the point.
I've got the Renaissance begining in Italy around A.D. 1350 and am calling
the change one of timekeeping again.
The first clear drawing of an escapement was given by Jacopo di Dondi and
his son in 1364.
It wouldn't be long before the clock moved from the town square into the
home, signaling another cultural restructureing of the day.
Within thirty generations (600 yrs) we are knocking on the door of a 1:350
work ratio that I'll cite below.
Well, meteorology is an exception. Coriolis
force, based on momentum of large masses of air, causes hurricanes,
tornadoes, etc., which are really ways that nature manages to
*concentrate* energy. Lightning is one other exception; there
triboelectric effects work to concentrate sunlight (pretty diffuse
power) into a very concentrated (both in time and in space) form of
energy - so the *power* is amplified considerably.
Fantastic way to put that point!
I can see the darklords armies arival anounced by the storm system that
always seems to hang above them, his units of wizards calling forth
lightning from the clouds in battle... and theoretically suggesting that the
wizards (if there's lots and lots of 'em) could burn all the energy outta
the storm-system unless the thing is magically fuled... if the magic only
concentraits the energy of a large area (time to cast?)... spells as
electronic circuts?
OUCH!
You shouldn't poke my brain like that... it might wake up!
But for most purposes, tracking available and expended energy
is a good way to measure civilization.
...
I agree?
...
We're back to that moral highground issue again.
If I ever put this thing on computer I've got one hell of a sims game I
think... however, baseing a sims type game on making the population do what
you want them too is almost as bad as the wonton killing thing.
Uhhhh, let's see...
I've got a member of the Joint Committee on Atomic Energy stateing to
congress in '71
"Our standard of living is the highest of any nation in the world because we
use the highest ratio of mechanical power vs. manpower. One man can do the
work of 350 men." Chet Holifield
My problem with this is that, while Holifields comment does indicate that
mechanization through intensive energy use has accelerated the economic
output of each person in society, it does nothing to indicate the quality of
that person's life in the society.
If your a captian of industry (sims player) then that 1:350 sounds
fantastic... (1 guy doing 35 hp of work?!?... na, John Henery can't move
that 13+lb shovel load any quicker than 200fps... hee hee hee) but I doubt
it ment too much to a person who was homeless at the time.
(Speaking of "captians of industry" the percentages of millionaires in
congress in the 90's seemed to be about 30% in the senate and around 20% in
the house compaired to about 0.5% for the general population. I wonder how
consistant that is over other decades?)
So Civ style games use "happiness" and Sim style calls it mood.
I use that Fame-Fortune-Happiness thing I've droned on about, it's all the
same diffrence.
A culture is a group (Unit) of people whos shared beliefs and customs gives
them similar FFH ratios.
(Religion is probably a culture)
Not all Units will have similar FFH ratios among it's members, Units that
are brought together via charter (governments and by extension nations), via
Tallent/training (military, sports, rock band) via FFH ratio (a player
trying for fame in the sport of chariot raceing would have their Figure at
the circus maximus, assuming it's been built, for a precentage of time equal
to their fame ratio, elseif their gonna fuss after awhile.
At 3:07 -0400 3/26/10, TFT Digest wrote:
This brings us back to that 0.1 hp per person of work.
Aparently, Egyptian priests told Herodotus that up to 100,000 men worked
on
the Great Pyramid at once.
At about 0.5g protien per kg of "ideal body weight" per man per day in
food
(just above starvation), this
equates to about 550 footpounds of work over the course of a workday
(10hrs?).
1 horsepower = 745.7 Watts = 550 foot-pounds per *second*,
not per day. If a worker really could sustain 0.1 hp over an 8-hour
workday, that would be 1584000 foot-pounds. It's probably
unreasonable to think of a worker actually moving that much (?), but
certainly 5 pounds 11 feet in one second is quite reasonable.
Yeah, I certainly did a job on butchering those figures huh?
I'm thinking if Joe shovels one 13.75lb shovel full of sand per second from
the hex on his right side to the hex on his left side for about 10 hours
he'd have done the work of 1hp 600 times slower.
That 55 pounds shows up all over the place in agraculture; Modern
Marvels-Harvesting 2 mentioned that at creekside mushroom farm, a workers
production is expected to be 55lbs per hour.
I always have to be careful with this stuff though.
A bushel of shelled corn is 56 pounds but the programe afore mentioned
stated that a team of corn "huskers" could pick an acre a day... reasonable
from the idea that an acre is an acre because it's about what a man and a
team of ox can get plowed in 1 days work... but then they say 100 bushels
and acre and I'm thinkin that we might be talkin on the cob and off the cob
with that one so I'll probably end up looking that one up this evening...
At 3:07 -0400 3/26/10, TFT Digest wrote:
This simple and specific situation not only proves the ability
to percieve 1 image within 1/220
of a second, but the ability to interpret higher FPS."
I disagree. I think it proves that the optic system
(detectors, nerves, etc.) can be affected within 1/220 second such
that the after-image is enough for the brain to grasp, process, and
recognize the shape that caused the after-image. But realistically,
if frames were being sent one after another at 220 frames per second,
could the pilot later say, "yes, numbers 7 and 33 were MiG-23's"? I
strongly doubt it. A single frame will produce an after-image lasting
seconds, which is plenty of time. But the Ted Williams experiment
pretty much demonstrates that 1/220 second is not enough time for the
brain to do much of any processing, IMHO.
I think the 0.215 seconds from the web site is a lot closer
to a reasonable time for a "dumb" reaction (flinch) and I think
somewhat longer for a "complex" reaction (Door #1, Door #2, Door #3)
would be appropriate.
Reasoning is of a feminine nature: it can give only after it has received.
Schopenhauer
I can't resist mentioning another Dalkowski story.
This guy was not only legend for his speed, but for his wild pitches too.
" In 995 minor league innings, he walked 1,354 batters and struck out 1,396.
He walked 21 in one minor league game and struck out 21 in another. In high
school he pitched a no-hitter while walking 18 and striking out 18."
He once hit an opposing batter in the head, the pitch removed part of the
batters ear.
He played in 9 leagues in 9 years and managers tried all manner of things to
develop control but the only manager who ever got him to throw 'reasonably'
more strikes than balls was Earl Weaver.
Earl Weaver had just been named manager of a minor league team that Steve
Dalkowski had just been traded too.
Earl had his team take IQ tests and Steve came in decidedly below average.
Rather than have Steve try to manage a game Weaver simplified things for
him; when Dalkowski was in the game the pitch was a high-heater every time.
His season got him called up to the majors where he threw out his elbow
fielding a bunt in the preseason and could only manage the low 90s in miles
per hour afterwards.
So if average reaction time is a fifth of a second and I express that as 2
seconds / DX (10avg) = 0.2 seconds and I say Steve had IQ 8 then his
reaction time is more like a quarter of a second... if his pitch is going at
200fps (in a vacume the whole time... maybe it's a spell) it covers the 60
feet to the plate in 0.3 seconds.
His sight to speed ratio would be something like 0.25:0.3
Compare to a pitcher throwing in the 100mph club @ 150fps (~102mph) with an
IQ of 12 who's sight to speed ratio is something like 0.16:0.4
sooooo if I divide the pitch time by the perception time of the pitcher and
make 3.5
At 3:07 -0400 3/26/10, TFT Digest wrote:
Biomass energy
But note, a lot (most?) of the mass that contributed to the
energy release was oxygen in the atmosphere, floating around the
biomass before it burned.
Fair enough.
That Modern Marvels had a blurb before comercial saying the u.s. was #1
contributer of food to the World Food Programe @ ~2 billion.
#2 was Saudi Arabia at ~500 million.
Colbert had some gag on making fun of a cat litter made from all corn.
At 3:07 -0400 3/26/10, TFT Digest wrote:
US measure: 106 pounds for 60 inches in height
+ 6 pounds for each additional inch over 60 inches
Ew. I have to lose *15 lbs?* Ew. ;-)
--
Naaaaa
Ewus not fat, ewus fluffy!
<ducks and runs for cover>
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