Re: (TFT) GURPS combat complexity etc.

[Sgt Hulka <hulkasgt@yahoo.com>]

The biggest mistake Champions made was defining "normal" human attributes and, in particular, speed. My experience with Champions 2nd edition to 4th edition was that speed was between 5 and 7. Anyone with a speed less than 5 was ineffective, and anyone with a speed more than 7 was ineffective (unless built on a huge number of points to increase endurance and recovery). So you moved up and down that scale based on the type of character you wanted to build...if you wanted The Flash at speed 7 you had to sacrifice other areas. If you wanted The Thing with huge strength you sacrificed speed and went with 5.

For some reason the designers decided that the maximum human speed was 4. That meant that big dumb bricks at speed 5 were actually quicker than olympic athletes. Captain America would have had to crawl along at Speed 4. But just because the designers said that didn't mean that players adjusted all their speeds down. Doing so would have upset the combat balance of their characters. So there was this huge chasm between player characters and non player characters.

This is where TFT was smart. They never defined maximum human potential. Theoretically, a normal human could have a strength of 100 (unless I missed or am forgetting something). Better to let the game mechanics define the maximums than to just arbitrarily make stuff up, imho.

I still love Champions, btw, but I pay the whole "normal characteristic Maxima" concept absolutely 0 attention.

--- On Fri, 6/8/12, Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: (TFT) GURPS combat complexity etc.
> To: tft@brainiac.com
> Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 12:00 PM
> ok so here lets muck around a 
> bit more on the domain dictioanry for hero
> games..
> 
> 
> Average human speed is 2.
> Average agent speed is 2-3
> Average super  hero speed is 3-4 for bricks.
> Average super  hero shooter is 4-5 speed.
> Martial artist super  heroes range 5-6.
> Speedster super  heroes go speed 5-7.
> Ive rarely seen speeds higher than 8.
> 
> OCV averages are dynamic in the game also, the way TFT
> adjusts dex moves
> around.
> 3 ocv for average joe with a fist or a gun.
> 3-5 for agents
> 4-5 for super agents
> 4-6 for super bricks
> 4-7 for super shooters
> 5-8 for super martial artists
> 
> DCV's are dynamic in the game also, the way TFT adjusts dex
> moves around.
> look at all the numbers above and add an extra +3dcv for
> dodging and going
> full defensive.
> 
> Weapons for fantasy are taken out of the fantasy hero book
> or built with
> character points.
> 
> 1h swords and hand and a halfers can range from 1d6+1k 
> or so.
> k is for killing, as opposed to normal)
> 
> A killing dice is equal to 15pts of str. So a killing dice
> is equal to 3d6
> of normal damage.
> 
> Damage is split into 2 types.
> 
>  killing damage ignores physical defense/toughness. 
> Stab someoone and
> normal skin gives like a grape skin. SPLORCH. killing is
> applied to body 1
> for 1, and applied to con as total bod dam * 1d6-1.
> thusly an average 2d6 sword attack could do 7pts of body,
> and 21 stun
> awwww.... unconscious but not dead.
> Thats pretty deadly eh mate?
> 
>  a normal non killing die of damage does body also:
> if you roll a 1 on a single normal die:  you do 0 body
> damage.  2-5 pips
> does 1 body of damage, and 6pips does 2 body damage. armor
> reduces body
> damage  normal damage is just accumulated of you dice
> and applied to con.
> 
> Brett? whats your experience with these numbers. Close?
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:29 AM, Jay Carlisle <maou.tsaou@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear friend, Hero games has done a nice job of this
> using speed.
> >
> > speed is (Dex / 10) +1.
> > Average DX is 10 in Herogames so:
> > average human is speed 2. supers are speed 3.
> > max segments: 12
> >
> > Got you Sir.
> > ...
> > Uhhh quick question please?
> > Define speed 1.
> > As I recall we are talking 5 second turns but I've
> played the MMORPG
> > Champions much more recently and phases are out the
> window there.
> > Still I've had luck with RPG translations of some of
> the quest structures
> > and the swinging chain weapons.
> > The numbers in the mechanics need to be able to
> communicate imaginative
> > information to the players and having to learn why
> "these go up to eleven"
> > is a misdirection that such an Illusion shant get from
> me.
> > I give no respect I tell ya.
> > Tell me how my reference material fits into the system
> and I can't bitch
> > but I was forced into an arbiter position simply from
> the lack.
> > I know what the point is but so far the movement to
> contact ain't popped me
> > in the melon.
> > b Everyone has talent. What's rare is the courage to
> follow it to the dark
> > places where it leads.b
> > b  Erica Jong <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/6085.Erica_Jong>
> > Yeah, that sounds so wise but maybe don't tell things
> like this to a
> > sociopath?
> > ...
> > The problem is how to get from a number as a symbol for
> something in the
> > system into each players head as a concept that agrees
> with the group
> > during play.
> > Simple is good until you forget to define the single
> unit.
> > Saying ST 10 is average doesn't define 1 point of ST.
> >  =====
> > Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> > Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com
> with the message body
> > "unsubscribe tft"
> =====
> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com
> with the message body
> "unsubscribe tft"
=====
Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
"unsubscribe tft"