(TFT) Rick's comments on David's comments.

[Rick Smith <rsmith@lightspeed.ca>]

On Fri, 2013-22-02 at 09:36 +1100, David Bofinger wrote:
> Even that leads to gamey things like running back two hexes and forward
> three.

That has never troubled me.  If there is not room for
a charge, then you don't get the bonus.

> Whenever I get around to running a game I'm planning to use: Charge damage
> bonus occurs if the attacker and target started the turn at least three
> hexes apart.

I've played with both.  Where the attacker must make the
3 hex charge, occasionally gives a situation where the
attacker does not get the x2 damage when he or she logically 
should.

In the other system you have to remember where the 
defender started.  Over the years, I've gradually come to
prefer the easy over the realistic.

> 
> I'd like it if someone could tell me what's wrong with this:
> 
> For order:
> 
> 1. Combat between characters who were engaged at the start of the turn
> happens first. Engaged characters still use DX order.
> 
> 2. "First attack" advantage happens in the first round, regardless of
> whether it's a charge or not.

I'm not sure what this means.  If you start disengaged
and end engaged it is a charge attack.  We divide 
charge attacks into 'charge attacks' and '3 hex charges'.
Using my nomenclature, are you saying that pole 
weapons always get their first turn charge attack bonus
regardless if it is a 3 hex charge or not?

> 
> 3. First attack advantage is in order of weapon length, so pole arms before
> others and then by strength requirement of weapon, not by DX.

Hmm.  Except for pole weapons TFT does not tell us the
lengths of the various weapons.  I might not mind if
this rule was ONLY for pole weapons.

> 
> For damage:
> 
> 1. Charge damage bonus is only given for spear-like weapons. So spear gets
> x2, a halberd (which has spear- and axe-like bits) gets x1.5, naginata
> (which doesn't have a point) gets x1 (and is 1+1 vice 1+2).

Naginata do have points.  Do a Google images search
for naginata.
> 
> 2. Charge damage bonus occurs if the attacker and target started the turn
> at least three hexes apart.
> 
> 3. No +2 for set vs. charge (it's a complicating rule and as far as I can
> tell armies chose to meet at a charge anyway).

Hmm...  Not sure I like this.  Some armies would build
a wall of pikes and let the enemy come to them.
> 
> Has anyone tried something like this?
> 
> > If you do, then if the pole weapon user retreats
> > his opponent, he only has a 50% chance to get a
> > second double damage charge.
> 
> Two thoughts:
> 
> 1. Isn't this true anyway? The retreated opponent can step forward, it's
> not a charge.

It is a charge attack, but not a 3 hex charge.  This 
rule assumes that if the pole guy wins initiative that
he will back up and make it a 3 hex charge (assuming 
that he has room to maneuver). 
> 
> 2. You need to hit them twice, see that's your problem. :-)
> 
> Cris - other tactics your simulator could try would be:
> 
> * when I have a polearm I choose to jab rather than charge.
> * when I face a polearm I choose to defend in the first round.

This last point is really important.  A lot of times
facing spear carriers I'll defend on the first round.
(By that I mean lower DX figures with a spear, halberd
or pike ax.)

> 
> Don't know if these would work well.
> 
> I checked my own simulator, which is pretty detailed but not as good as
> Cris' and used some of the house rules above. It created dozens of warriors
> and then repeatedly culled the one with the worst average score against
> survivors. The last survivors, notionally the best, were spear, gladius,
> broadsword, halberd ... I don't really understand how halberd does so badly
> against swords, but I don't seem to have a bug.
> 
> -----
> David
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