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Re: (TFT) Targeting Horses and their Riders

horses in leather aren't invincible to longbows, as was demonstrated on numerous occasions, including the 100YW and War of Roses. However, fully-armored knights with shields could usually close to combat with minimal difficulties which is why the French began to fight dismounted. Also, Pavisiers (heavy infantry with very large shields and a spear/sword) also historically weathered the arrow storm and in at least one instance drove off the English longbows.

Light and medium armor resulted in a bit of a massacre.

Now a different question is how many arrows does it take to STOP a charging horse / knight against a guy with a longbow or crossbow? I think ALL pre-gunpowder weapons have missiles that are so slow you can nearly watch them so you can nearly dodge them. This means that in a small skirmish they are less effective except in ambush. If you watch archers now - including Japanese re-enactors - you can see the arrow flying and easily dodge it.

So the skirmish question, which is more important for TFT than the battle question, has a different answer RE: missile weapon effectiveness in general.

-----Original Message----- From: Joey Beutel
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 3:56 PM
To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: Re: (TFT) Targeting Horses and their Riders

Well just on the point of "how many arrows does it take to stop a charging horse?" The answer in my mass combat was a LOT. But their riders were in plate with large shields and so were basically invincible to longbows (excepting double or triple damage). The horses were just wearing leather.

On Aug 23, 2013, at 3:38 PM, PvK wrote:

In some games I have played, and some historical accounts I have read, there have been social reasons no to attack horses, e.g.:

* It may actually be considered a crime to deliberately attack a horse.
* It may be considered bad to attack horses for spiritual reasons - e.g. bad karma, offending gods or transgressing religious rules.
* It may be considered cowardly or ignoble to attack a horse.
* Commanders may tend to train and/or give orders to attack riders rather than horses, for whatever reasons. * A horse may be valuable enough, that destroying it is not considered a good idea, or is something a lord doesn't want his minions to do, even if it might be a slightly effective tactic. * I have read many accounts that wounded horses are a piteous and horrible spectacle.

Practical reasons not to attack a horse:

* An attacked horse might be much more likely to attack (or even go berserk), while if you don't attack it, it might not attack, so by attacking it, you may be creating an opponent. * Horses can take more effort to kill than the rider, probably don't need to be killed to win the fight, and may have some protective gear themselves (even if only cloth or leather).
* After the combat, if you win, it can be useful or valuable.

A technical consideration, is I wonder how likely it is for an arrow (or X number of arrows) to actually stop a horse that is charging. I don't know the answer, but I suspect it might take an average of quite a few arrow hits, as horses are big and arrows small, and it can certainly take a long time to stop a bull in a bullfight...

I also think that there would be some chance of hitting the horse rather than the rider, or vice versa, when attacking a mounted figure or their mount.

And, TFT doesn't mention the cover penalty of horses or mounted figures, but it seems it would be greater than a standing human figure.

On the other hand, I think attacking horses probably is a valid tactic and often pretty effective. Despite all the considerations, I've seen a lot of horses get shot and/or their legs slashed, to good effect.

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