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Re: (TFT) Re: TFT Digest V4 #348

Neil Gilmore,

 Maybe I was not being clear so let me try again.  The French knight or man at
arms was generally of the gentry or landed aristocracy they were already very
good horsemen as it was part of everyday life.  Unlike a yeoman archer who did
other things most of the time and spent one day a week practicing at minimum.
At man at arms only had his job so he could and would spend most everyday
learning it, unlike a SCA or IJA person who can put in a weekend or a couple
of weeks here and there.  Six months of train would have been plenty for Lord
or knight as they already could ride well learning the nuances of the lance
and sword from horseback is what they would be training at.  So this is very
much a professional soldier who spent his life in his craft anyone rich enough
to own a horse and a suit of armor was of a higher class than an archer.

 Next to you point of hitting a 10' area at 100 yards English archers were
picking out individual targets man or horse at that range and dropping them.
Crecy and Agincourt descriptions are filled with accounts of arrows piercing
armor at that range easily.   Again massed arrow were used at extreme ranges
well beyond 200 yards.  Less than that it was aimed fire at specific target
and at short range under 75 yards or so it was specific areas on the target.

 Here is an example range specifications;

   A flight arrow of a professional archer of Edward III's time would reach
365 m (399 yd). It is also well known that no practice range was allowed to be
less than 220 yds by order of Henry VIII.

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 ------ Original Message ------
   Received: 03:53 PM PDT, 08/28/2013
   From: raito@raito.com
   To: tft@brainiac.com
   Subject: Re: (TFT) Re: TFT Digest V4 #348

     > It takes a lot less time to train a man at arms to ride well and
       > from
       > a horse. I lived next to a horse ranch and saw people trained and
       > rode
       > myself, horses and riders can be trained fairly quickly. Don't think
       > see
       > the Yankee Cav (mostly city bred non horsemen) in the Civil war by
       > they
       > were as good as the Confederates who are considered some of the best
       > ever
       > take to the saddle. Also the US Cav and Volunteers in the Spanish
       > American
       > war were brought up to speed very quickly in formation and maneuver
       > tactics,
       > obviously the people had some idea as to how to ride, then again so
       > the
       > French. It is the maneuver and formation that they had to learn
       > takes a
       > lot less time than building up the strength, stamina and accuracy
that a
       > veteran English archer had.

       This is simply not correct. Please note that later cavalry were not
       trained the same sort of warfare as the armoured knight.

       Teaching someone to ride is only the prerequisite to teaching them to
       fight from the saddle. I know people who do fight in armour from the
       saddle. Some in SCA, some in IJA (International Jousting
       Association)(Lloyd Clark lives less than an hour away). Took them a lot
       years to get their proficiency. Hitting something with a lance and
       your seat is not a mean skill.

       Whereas the local archers (I'm blessed with a group that does archery
       every week) can get anyone physically capable able to do what's
       in a couple years of training. The accuracy required for mass volley
       really isn't difficult at all. For example, I could regularly hit a
       circle at 100 yards after only a day's practice. And I only shoot
       twice a year. I've been known to best guys who shoot twice a week at

       My experiences appear to contradict yours.

       Sure, you can point to all that physical evidence that the longbowmen
       their very bodies modified by their art. And I can also point to
       (like Wisby) where you can tell the riders and swordsmen by their

       Neil Gilmore
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