Re: (TFT) Hanging Magic in TFT.

[Rick Smith <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca>]

Hi Peter,
  The point of this was to allow some wizards to have the D&D style 
choices of trying to fit a hung spell to the unexpected situation.  Also
to allow people to do the cool things Merlin did in the Amber novels.

  If you don't want that D&D dynamic, the whole point of these rules
is rather missing.

  That said, if you object to the automatic magic fist hit, as GM, have 
them do something else.  These rules are not trying to make a way
of chaining TFT spells in a rigid way, but to allow GM's and PC's to
invent new spells that have some approximate balance to each
other in terms of cost and difficulty.

  Warm regards, Rick.



On 2015-04-24, at 9:30 PM, Peter von Kleinsmid wrote:

> Some thoughts:
> 
> * The "spells per day" thing (as well as its "memorize and forget" description) is one of the things that I rather dislike about D&D magic. Another is how powerful the spells are.
> * I like this version better because the mechanic is more TFT-like, but it seems like there are still balance issues. An avid balancer would compare the cost/effects to what it takes to do similar stuff with potions, magic gems and enchantments.
> * It seems like some of these spells end up not only being am amazing way to built up a huge magical attack without using all that fatigue during combat, but they also gain some advantages that can't be achieved in any other way, which don't seem to me to be particularly natural consequences, and I don't like that aspect of them. For example, I don't mind a huge fireball having an extra chance to knock people over if it's because of the natural physics of a huge fireball going off, but I don't like four magic fists that don't do actual damage and don't seem to need to roll to hit.
> * In your example, it seems like the rate is generous unless it's a low-fatigue hung spell, because of the resting time that'd be needed, assuming you and/or your apprentices need to recover at least 8 fatigue (80 minutes unless I mis-remember) after each failure. So one attempt would be about 40 minutes to try plus 80 minutes to recover, or two hours per attempt, so average 22 hours rather than 7.5.
> * For the guideline where the GM decides a hung spell is too good after it's been used, I would make it seem less arbitrary by telling them they have discovered a drawback that they'll need to spend more fatigue to avoid, but which they so far luckily avoided. So I'd add a chance that if they cast it at the original fatigue level, there could be a fizzle or backfire or unintended effect. To me this is more interesting and breaks continuity less, while addressing the balance issue.
> * I think these spells are interesting and not unbalanced in the sense that you have made them cost a LOT in terms of experience, not everyone can even spend XP on it, and the high fatigue cost, need for people casting Aid on you, time required, and risk of failure.
> * However, they do still stretch the balance impact of having one of these effects go off... I think this is ok as long as you are an experienced GM who has his world make sense in terms of what magic gets made, and doesn't just have excessive stuff because it's cool.
> 
> For Hit Them When They Are Down:
>    I wouldn't mind it if it were a combination of existing spells, but I don't much like the rolling Hammertouch, or what seems to be its fairly automatic nature which unless I misremember, doesn't match what it would take if you had a group of wizards casting actual Hammertouch.
> 
> For the Firey Fireball spell:
>   I think the Magic Fist part is weird. I don't mind it having a knockback effect, but basing it on Magic Fist seems weird because what would aim the fists, why would they not do damage, why would there only be four, why would they not miss, etc just seems odd - I prefer the "critical success" effect of just having everyone close have to check or fall. Rolling 3/ST or 3/DX whichever is better isn't a very evil effect even into magic fire... well, it is for weakish undextrous unarmored types, but those can be hurt easily in other ways too.
> 
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