Re: (TFT) TFT Battle tools.

[Thomas Fulmer <tfulmer1@gmail.com>]

Rick makes a good point, battle balance is hard to achieve -- being able to
input the party and the enemies and run a few simulations to see how many
times each side wins would be useful in building good encounters.

--Thomas

On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 1:55 AM Rick Smith <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca> wrote:

> Hi David,
>   I have an active TFT group, so we play out our Battles live.
>
>   However, if you are thinking of useful TFT utilities, a simple
> system that can have the PC's entered into it and then their
> enemies and say if it will be a close battle would be useful
> to me.
>
>
>   Warm regards, Rick.
>
>
>
> On 2015-11-19, at 9:41 PM, David Bofinger wrote:
>
> > Perhaps instead of writing a program that conducts hundreds of
> consecutive
> > TFT battles, maybe I should have written one that generates text, like it
> > seems Jay has.
> >
> > I'm thinking to be fun the program needs interactivity. That means two
> > things:
> >
> > * Conversion to JavaScript and a Web interface.
> >
> > * Some degree of human input: e.g. The ability to directly control one
> > character.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > --
> > David
> > On 20/11/2015 1:53 PM, "Jay Carlisle" <maou.tsaou@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Can it do football?
> >> A turring test I use to feel out flow.
> >> 5 second turns are awkward from a game view where the roll to hit
> >> feels like a specific swing even though it's undefined injury hp's and
> >> it's hard to make that clear which is important as the gametools are
> >> about detailing so players aren't in different realms with abstract
> >> terms imaginatively speaking. Players need to agree on visualization
> >> in a shared creative experience or the different ideas of what
> >> fireball is can make for messy oops when the difference pops up four
> >> sessions into play and NOW find it's a baseball not AD&D PH flash fire
> >> of fumes filling lots more volume.
> >> I also added athletics and got rid of abstract injury counting fatigue
> >> in hp and have 1 second phase turns so literally mean football but I'm
> >> Me and ditched GM's in favor of setting up objective sandbox environs
> >> that can't have player above all other players plop nether region poop
> >> at will into play instead striving for a design anytime but in play
> >> attempt at objectivity elseif I'd box My personality and push that
> >> instead of trying to make a game. Call it D&D but it's not the same
> >> thing if everybody plays so different that houserules define a
> >> specific table set up to whatever format quarter inch graph here 5 sq
> >> per inch there and papertape movement the other. My designs should fit
> >> all tables playing said game elseif top of the table is basically
> >> nerfed into decoration rather than encouraged and collected for use of
> >> the community.
> >> IMHO of course... I think rules lawyers irked GG so bad He over
> >> reacted. To much questioning was the claim but read that hot mess and
> >> piss poor publishing and editing makes questioning necessary sooooo
> >> piss on a meta player back to a table of equals and if You wanna tell
> >> a story write a book but plotting game makes play pointless like so
> >> many button presses between cut scene unaffected by play at all...
> >> Play to the mediums strengths not mimic another mediums pidgin...
> >> poorly. Gameplay implies fairness and impactive participation not
> >> personal whim and wing it but say it's got depth like lost or x files.
> >> Depth requires design and can't be hidden long by pretty drawings or
> >> similar distractions. Improv ain't gonna script Adaptation and
> >> whatever the market model is these days is better termed paticaptory
> >> fiction or somesuch not trying to invalidate what can work fine as
> >> entertainment... maybe the point after justifying what the hell one
> >> spent ones adult life mucking about with a game shame that might be
> >> showing a tiny bit but not heavy on fairness, effect of a given player
> >> on actual plot or tiny details like how many gp's are in circulation
> >> or where the "Orc's" (half-orc means race not monster... shameful fail
> >> to find any tinge to kill and loot to progress period and wargames saw
> >> My slap happy ass in 82nd cause the conflict was framed as fun and the
> >> rest wasn't even hinted as downsides which doesn't have to be preached
> >> but I ain't making recruitment propaganda for pax americana so war can
> >> cause more problems than it corrects... kills... whatever) come from
> >> before the left turn out GMs ass and how many ass orcs does that clown
> >> car caboose hold? Stories can skip what isn't pert but Players pop
> >> quantum wave functions in gameworlds same as realworld just asking
> >> questions and winging actual figures can come back quick to bite
> >> storytellers but ignoring Player questions is... well I find it awful
> >> art as well as evidence of a group to bid g'day too if not intent on
> >> usurp the gimp GM's GURP's group which is a dick move in itself but I
> >> hate stupid murder porn so primetime tv is not on My radar as I could
> >> care less about hurting murder porns feelings and storytelling GM's
> >> get little better if trying to bully ME. Bitch this is MY HOUSE and
> >> has been for 40 years now so You go do You but I ain't got time to
> >> stroke ego's with nada but bravado backing it. Most GM's know how to
> >> barter with implied suggestions so My scathing MINE'S BIGGER bs has
> >> only issued forth a few times for idiots trying to authority ME like I
> >> don't have authority issues or hands on experience and no gut from
> >> devoting Myself to hedgefund management instead of game as art ramen
> >> and a temper about MY subject. Y'all's too, ownership isn't exclusive
> >> here but starting with pathfinder ain't cred likely to correct or make
> >> dps seem like a good metric for tabletop when trying to trump My
> >> Bunnies and Burrows ace in the hole kid. You like it? Valid but not an
> >> objective argument for superior mechanic and certainly not necessary
> >> for all RPG's (while bitchin bout no GM too... picky kid who won't eat
> >> but one thing) but design is a bitchgoddes that promptly throws You
> >> under the bus when critique or complaints bandy about somehow prior to
> >> publication because game is like god... all good till a question or
> >> two is asked and god isn't unifing no more and game becomes taste. MY
> >> subject. If I wasn't stupid or arrogant I'd not be here so sue Me... I
> >> try to empower Players to play the game they want rather than suffer
> >> illusions of ownership without falling away into homebrew hinterlands
> >> localized out of any formal relation past title and with an eye toward
> >> besting what is to a final form rather than market releases to drive
> >> profit but ditch rules to sell copy making each edition a different
> >> game which has no reason to do much at all as it's throw away in half
> >> a decade and not striving for the best expression at all because
> >> Players are to be milked of all monies possible not served ones best
> >> to a community of fellows trusting the rest to follow. Why make the
> >> best make believe possible when no ones paying You? Because no one
> >> else would. Game is what had market success not mythmaking and
> >> mythologizing creatively instead of just buying the party line like
> >> You can't tweak the story to suit. Civilization as escalator of upward
> >> progress bs ignoring how horrible We are at it. Humans as multicelled
> >> community organisms not individuals consisting of the waking ego and a
> >> reflex or two who can't survive alone being fundemental to a
> >> harmonious view of existance instead of trying to fix a gender pay gap
> >> that doesn't exist because heard it on tv is as good as saw it on tv
> >> as proof of anything. Everyone knows aluminum leave a loony tunes
> >> cyote shaped hold hitting steel reinforced concreate. Equal and
> >> opposite does just that and is probably what David Copperfield used
> >> making the statue of liberty disappear which I saw only trumped by
> >> expert testamony and a computer model as conclusive evidence that the
> >> popular rags ain't worth paper to wipe the jericurl left by all those
> >> exiting ass-orcs balance like AI is "computer players cheat" and poor
> >> fits for actual game. Got a lucky crit streak? Watch the extra
> >> ass-orcs make the fight longer to suit the GM. I try plucking fair
> >> outta there and leave the story to the sumation but I got weird ideas
> >> about playable non-combat characters and constructive play options to
> >> advance to contrast destructive play. King's are not playable unless
> >> You count the kingdom but why put populations instead of nothing and
> >> npcs following the orc route which I wouldn't rule either... I don't
> >> even use two moons or babble names for common concepts or even not
> >> Earth as objective example which is stupid of Me because everyone can
> >> ID a 20 mile box of area as specifically here not there while driving
> >> perfectly farting cherry blossom fresh stink to and subjective
> >> objective examples are where ass people are pulled from.
> >> Fantasy is not about small considered changes to existing knowns but
> >> about drawing a locational map and babble names and ignoring existing
> >> norms while using them ergo Middle Earth is Earth normal gravity or
> >> Legolas's bow needs lots o splainin like bullets on Mars if bothering
> >> to go past space opera there will be no math in THIS game dictum more
> >> than description. I try to explain a frame past what Players should
> >> ever access to cover clever girls dropping My concept by designing
> >> deep magic say not buzz wording it like a full concept. Magic is often
> >> meh to unformed conceptually much less deep magic. Lilly guilding
> >> again rather than claiming loose conception pretending to depth that
> >> ain't never been there. Lore before game is horse pullin by cart. Game
> >> plays lore is told. Like putting everything in a digital RPG as code
> >> for no reason other than fixation forgetting playing to strength
> >> options code can't carry. The touch table plant is in My neck o the
> >> woods and worth consideration untill sales numbers show if the ground
> >> is fallow but if so We have table experience others lack and can't
> >> implement if not locked into code period like game must have story
> >> because xbox not Atari2600 roots and I can rant a LONG TIME here but
> >> think I finally got win10 malware nuked and can use My gumped machine
> >> to play nice with the other boys and girls I'm looking to convert this
> >> with for Jay purposes and residual info that may help if reported back
> >> sooooooo Jay shuts up... amazing even Me. Jay Joyce was a rotten
> >> method for Me to mimic and learning to sortta type at 50/60wpm or more
> >> made Me dangerous able to rant ad nausium and type what I think which
> >> is worse than just posting nudie pics at the list which is just...
> >> well not what I'd want to communicate to something I consider a
> >> personal treasure so Jay's jewels are a TFT teabag of some awful awful
> >> tea.
> >> Yet that's what comes of My trickle of cluelessness coupled with the
> >> competence compulsive failure forces from a Universe fed up with
> >> trying to signal a stupid soul engaged in stupid... the asylum becomes
> >> the inmates domain and... THIS!
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:26 PM, David Bofinger
> >> <bofinger.david@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Cris:
> >>>> If it's random, then you have a simulator, right?
> >>>
> >>> Yes, that's the point of the project.
> >>>
> >>>> There must be some decent AI, too?
> >>>
> >>> Of course. Brilliant AI. That the heroes and monsters just scream and
> >> leap
> >>> without a thought for tactics or survival? I must have wanted it to
> >> happen
> >>> that way.
> >>>
> >>> Seriously, the AI it has now is pretty basic. They just run at each
> other
> >>> and they don't even think about where their friends are. Though they
> >> think
> >>> a little harder about their facing. Sometimes they feel so happy with
> >> their
> >>> back against a wall that they stay out of the fight for a turn or two.
> >>> Better AI would be a possibility but it sounds hard and I don't know if
> >> it
> >>> would make the program any more fun.
> >>>
> >>> I just added terrain: random groups of blocked hexes. And logic to
> stop a
> >>> battle if the two sides find themselves isolated. :-)
> >>>
> >>> That's a good question: what *would* make this more fun?
> >>>
> >>>> What language did you write it in?
> >>>
> >>> It's Java. Very bad Java. I didn't think before I started typing. For
> >>> instance: in retrospect the hex map should have made less use of
> >> Cartesian
> >>> coordinates and more of arrays of neighbours.
> >>>
> >>>> Will you make it open source (put it on Github)?
> >>>
> >>> I think for the moment if anyone wants it they can ask me and I'll
> mail.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for mailing me privately about methods of displaying hexes but
> >>> really displaying the hexes is the easy part and I'm not going to
> change
> >> it
> >>> now. Unless this is somehow relevant to converting it to a web app,
> which
> >>> might be a very good idea. Converting to Javascript should be easy,
> >>> shouldn't it?
> >>>
> >>> Greg:
> >>>> Do the blue guys always win?
> >>>
> >>> Not in general, there's the occasional total party kill. But there
> might
> >>> not be one in the battles I put up, I didn't check.
> >>>
> >>> The program adjusts the strength of monsters after every fight to get
> an
> >>> average of 50 points of pain for the characters each battle. One dead
> >>> character is 50 points, and one point of damage on a character is 1
> >> point.
> >>>
> >>> Each battle the number of characters gets randomly chosen. If there's
> too
> >>> many some get benched for a battle. If there's not enough some new ones
> >> get
> >>> made. Characters accumulate experience and each time they get a level
> >> they
> >>> have a 50% chance of increasing ST (perhaps with a change of weapon)
> and
> >>> 50% of increasing DX. Then they might change their armour and/or
> shield.
> >>>
> >>>> The animation was a little fast for me to see what was going on
> >>>> at first.  Maybe added a speed setting or a scrubber bar so that you
> >> can
> >>>> go back to see what happened.
> >>>
> >>> The program makes a sequence of PNG images, which I turned into a GIF
> >>> animation using VirtualDub. I read on the web it makes small GIF files,
> >>> which seemed important. I also tried FFMPEG but didn't have much luck:
> >> got
> >>> it to work once but the file was huge and then I changed settings and
> it
> >>> never worked again. :-( I could certainly slow the animation down, but
> I
> >>> don't know how to do speed settings. It's annoying that browsers, etc.,
> >>> don't let you change speed. Anyone got any thoughts?
> >>>
> >>> Marc:
> >>>> how it compares with Lloyd's simulator?
> >>>
> >>> There are many duel simulators but I haven't seen any other skirmish
> >>> simulators.
> >>>
> >>> Thomas:
> >>>> If your map allowed for entering turns/tokens in a simple
> >>>> format then displayed the map with movements/facings/attacks
> >>>> from a simple text input it would save a lot of time in that regard.
> >>>
> >>> If you want the code I'll send it but I think you'll getting nicer
> >> results
> >>> from a simple drawing package.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 20 November 2015 at 02:23, Greg Thorne <Greg.Thorne@sas.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Very cool.  The animation was a little fast for me to see what was
> >> going on
> >>>> at first.  Do the blue guys always win?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Very Cool!  The animation was a little fast for me to see what was
> >> going on
> >>>> at first.  Maybe added a speed setting or a scrubber bar so that you
> >> can g
> >>>> o back to see what happened.
> >>>>
> >>>> Question:  Do the blue guys always win?
> >>>>
> >>>> -Greg Thorne
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 11:58 PM, David Bofinger <
> bofinger.david@gmail.com
> >>>> <mail
> >>>> to:bofinger.david@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I wrote code to generate animations like this, and I'm interested in
> >>>> people's thoughts.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8kf98b1vtng46nh/tftbattles.gif?dl
> >>>> It has a lot of the Advanced Melee rules, some of them approximated,
> >>>> twenty-eight character templates, thirty-one simplified monster
> >>>> definitions. No wizards, no missiles weapons (wouldn't be that hard to
> >> add
> >>>> but might not be much fun), no tactics much other than "Charge!" Tell
> me
> >>>> what you think.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> David
> >>>>
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> >>>>
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